Episode 247
#247 - Interview with author Jenna Udenberg
In this heartfelt and inspiring conversation, Dave sits down with Jenna Udenberg. A talented author, a serious disability advocate. Founder of Above & Beyond With U. From her Northshore roots to becoming a Bush Fellow community leader. Jenna shares the challenges and triumphs of living life from a seated perspective.
Diagnosed with Juvenile Idiopathic Arthritis at 7. She’s spent decades advocating for accessibility that goes beyond the checklist and stories. that go beyond the surface we talked about her memoir Within My Spokes. How vulnerability builds inclusion, and why “disability” is not a bad word.
Where to Find the Guest?
🌐 Website: https://www.aboveandbeyondwithu.org/
📚 Work: Within My Spokes: A Tapestry of Pain, Growth & Freedom: https://a.co/d/f9splE7
📲 Social: @aboveandbeyondwithu
And of course, you can find all the links for L.I.T.G, and where to listen at:
Transcript
Interview with Jenna Udenberg
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Jenna Udenberg: [:Right? Yeah. It's a hot mess.
Dave: It's
Jenna Udenberg: It is a struggle, and obviously like the people that act that way or say those things have never lived this life, right? So part of me feels really bad, like, well, not bad, but like, wow, what a sheltered life you've lived, if that's your interpretation of this, and wow how you've always been in dominant culture
Dave: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: have put yourself in a minority situation,
now, we tend to like to look [:Jenna Udenberg: right?
Dave: many people that are incredibly successful, like I think, like one of them has to be like Stevie Wonder, right? Which is a blind man that can play piano and also makes his own music. So. I'm not saying to like not look at it. Yes, there's like a lot of things obviously we gotta be able to take care of, but also understand, okay. Instead of like treating it as like, oh you poor thing. Why don't we treat it like, okay, you are limited in a certain aspects, so you've had to figure out other ways of being able to survive in a world where you don't have, you see where I'm getting with this? So
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: just being able
Jenna Udenberg: Just being able to,
Dave: and it's not denying, it's not centralizing, it's not demoting. It's having a better understanding.
intersectionality, right? So [:Dave: Damn
Jenna Udenberg: all those things. But you know, it's like that is all of me, you know?
Plus more, 'cause that's just the beginning, right? Um, so I, I feel like we're in such, and I was just listening to, to something where it was like, we're such a divisive culture. Actually, it was one of your podcasts, shocker, of all things, right? And it was like, why does it have to be one? Or why can't it be one ant?
Because that is reality. But for whatever reason, with reality, with political stuff, with societal, we've all changed it, that it has to be black or white, yes or no. And it's like, but life is gray, so yeah.
ggest eye openers was when I [:You know, they were some people that, like, they still were doing construction. They were still working on their car. they're
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: out their wife and, but I think that came from a mentality of where they've been through worse. They've seen worse. They have this entire support team behind them, and they have people that they
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: care about. So not just gonna stop just because life threw them an obstacle. They're gonna keep on going regardless of those things.
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: Isn't that
iate all of those situations [:It's how we react to it. Life's always gonna throw us crap, but you know, it's what we make of it.
Dave: I think we take it for granted, to be honest. You know, I think something that we forget is time has gone on, we live in a society where we're better and capable of assisting people in all walks of life,
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: lot of this stuff did not exist 20 or 30 years ago.
Jenna Udenberg: Right?
Dave: that's that. That's also something to keep in mind.
You know, like a lot of the times, like if you were just throwing this aside like you were a disabled person in the eighties,
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: you're gonna the Looney bin, you know,
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
abuse the shit outta you and[:Jenna Udenberg: Yep. Drug you up so that way you can't have autonomy and dignity and all those things.
Dave: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: I think
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: these were banned earlier, but regardless of the point, it's just the fact that, okay, that was a reality in a very short time. was like, what, 40 years ago? Not even like 38 tops,
uh, seven, going on eight. So:And I'm like, I have no idea what an institution is, grandma, but it sounds horrible. So yeah, you keep me out of that and I'll try to keep you out of a nursing home.
Dave: I think.
ake care of you, grandma. So [:But
Dave: You know what
Jenna Udenberg: yeah.
Dave: There are people. Look, I think this is something also to cover. There are people where when you, you get older that you're able to live on your own. You know, there are
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: that live into their nineties where got their brain, they still got their consciousness, they still have some form of flexibility and mode. I think what it is, is just, it's mindset.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: sometimes, you know, depending, and again, everybody goes through shit in their life, man. Like sometimes even our own grandparents had really, really, really hard lives.
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: you get older, that has, that has a weight on you and that does
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: on you physically and mentally. But to be able to understand that you have those options, that's what I'm trying to get at over here, is you are able to have those options instead of being able to have where you have forced options. Telling you
Jenna Udenberg: Right?
Dave: do this or, [:Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: that's a different story.
Jenna Udenberg: Right. And I think, you know, I mean so much of this is getting forced on the disability community and culture as far as like finding care networks and making sure our needs get met and all of those things. And I think we're gonna find ourselves in very different ways of housing and we're gonna find ourselves in very different ways of providing care because society is just crap in the bed.
And it's like, so how can we come together? And you know, and I'm in different housing forums and situations and committees and that kind of stuff. It's like, please stop creating more cookie cutter living situations because we're not that, our society isn't that, like we have less and less in the workforce.
one room schoolhouse type of [:Or Oh, you need your meat cut. Oh, well then you blend my food. You know, like it's gonna be way more, uh, communal cooperative care. Otherwise we're not gonna, we're not gonna make it through. And there's so much, like you said earlier, there is so much beauty and art, artistic and just, um, amazing power within the disability community and culture that we're missing out on because people see the limitations.
ess that's there and the the [:End,
Dave: No, and I mean, it also stems even into when you get into the world of autism, I'm very much the
Jenna Udenberg: right?
Dave: the side of, it's not, it's not a disability. Okay. It's not a limitation. You know what? I've been lucky enough to meet kids that are autistic to the point where they cannot communicate, they cannot talk.
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: and they're very bright kids.
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: clever. They figure out ways of getting around the world without being able to speak, know?
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
al. We can't talk. They need [:Jenna Udenberg: Oh,
Dave: you see, you see this shit that they pull and they get
Jenna Udenberg: right,
Dave: 'cause it's very easy. It's like, well, they, they can't talk for themselves. So we're, we're gonna talk
Jenna Udenberg: right, right. And it's like, no, there's many ways that a human communicates, and I think speaking versus communication is too completely different, completely different, excuse me, completely different things. And, uh. Yeah, I, and I'm even kind of struggling sometimes, you know, when it is actually the disabled person speaking versus their loved one or caregiver.
f that, but not all of these [:And it's like, no, let let the words of the disabled person speak for themselves and give them the autonomy and the dignity and the voice that's truly their voice. We don't need to add more, we don't need to subtract any, let the voice and the message be the voice and the message.
Dave: I, like I said, in
Jenna Udenberg: But like I said.
Dave: with people that are nonverbal, they, when they, obviously they use iPads and stuff these days more than
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: and, and, and pen. They're very direct. So they ask you directly what they want or what they're asking. There's no cookie cutter, there's no long biography, and I think just as an observer, it's because that they're limited in, in for them to be able to speak that when they need to communicate, they communicate as direct as they possibly can. 'cause they want you
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: exactly what they're saying. So.
Well, and then I would also [:And it's like, no, when somebody's using an a, a c, an iPad or whatever, to verbally communicate for them, it takes a long time. And like I had a summer during my college days and I had a burned vocal cord from one of my medications. And I was like literally three months of no speaking. And I had to use a computer man by the time you type something in and then hit speak.
conversation, to be in a, a [:And part of that is that we have to value that other person.
Dave: You do,
Jenna Udenberg: So we need to shut up and just listen.
Dave: You. You have to, you have to also be able to focused because
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: like, I know this, especially with podcasting, the second you start away,
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: where things get really gnarly.
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: that's something again, where I think that we tend to forget as humans, right, is we primarily communicate with language, but most other things on this earth don't primarily communicate with language. Great example of this, right? We have dogs and cats. As pets.
Jenna Udenberg: Hmm.
Dave: Turns out cats don't really meow to each other in real
enna Udenberg: Oh sure. Yeah.[:Dave: Dogs don't wild dogs or specifically wolves. They only communicate when it regards their own pack if they're hunting or they need a nest or burrow in a certain area. So.
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: What
Jenna Udenberg: Hmm.
Dave: tell you? What does it That means that, okay, we have gotten used to one form of many ways
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: and has made that the staple, but that's not the only staple.
Jenna Udenberg: Right. And it is interesting, our body language, I don't think we pick up on it. I think it's just social cues that we get used to. And some of us have some training in, in, you know, human psychology or those kinds of things, but by and large, we don't, we're just picking up what has been role modeled or what we've seen as examples.
, like, Jonna, tell me about [:And I'm like, no, I'm actually more engaged mentally right now. Like my wheels are spinning and we are having this like super amazing conversation.
Dave: Full
Jenna Udenberg: And I was like, oh, but to the non-disabled, I was looking like I was bored and not engaged, but in my body it was getting my body at rest so my brain and my ears could be fully engaged and not thinking about, oh, my hips hurt.
t, you know? So now I try to [:This is my body. My body's gonna look different than yours, and here's how. But ask curious questions. Don't make assumptions, right?
Dave: No, you, it, you know, like the idea of also like, um, you know, it used to be where we have this very big problem in the US where most places are not accessible. What I mean is the fact that if you're somebody that's in a wheelchair to get to certain places, next to impossible. You have to like park and then like, like literally roll for like fucking 10 minutes just to find a place, just to up on the ramp.
And then you gotta go all the way back in the opposite direction, you know?
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
I had to like, literally go [:Jenna Udenberg: Yep. And then we get the whole, well, you should just be grateful to be out of your home today.
Dave: get the fuck outta here.
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: No, but you know, wanna like, look, it's not like everybody's gonna have this, right? Okay.
Jenna Udenberg: Right?
Dave: But also being able to like, being a little bit more considerate at the same time. Okay,
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: let's be real, right? The, the steps and the mass of curbs, not, most of the time they're not really necessary. this whole
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: protecting cars. know how many cars fly through store windows regardless of those, they still fly through. Okay? They
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: through
Jenna Udenberg: And they might actually get a little trajectory because of them.
setts, like some of the city [:So everything's kind of floor level there's
Jenna Udenberg: Okay.
Dave: ramps. 'cause there's hills obviously,
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: you don't really need to like go up steps and stuff. It's just kind of everything, kind of like, just meshes together with like trees and cobblestone and little stores and stuff. I don't, it feels a little bit more natural.
You know? You don't really, that's the thing too, is you don't really notice like people that are, for example, in wheelchairs or dealing with disabilities, like out in the blue, it just kind of blends in with everybody
Jenna Udenberg: together. Yep.
Dave: You're not separating
Jenna Udenberg: G. Right? Like society should be like community should be, yeah.
Dave: I know.
s always like, why does this [:And then you look around and you're like, oh, 'cause I'm with my people. And oh, there's accessible bathrooms everywhere. There's power doors everywhere. But the amount of times I can probably count that on my hand is like two, right? But still it's like, yeah, it's just, it's so, I don't know. That's gonna be such a great day when we get there, if we get there.
But I try to continue to be hopeful every day.
Dave: Here's the flip side of it. Okay. I'm currently in vocational school. I'm in an automotive school,
Jenna Udenberg: Nice.
Dave: I remember, thank you. I remember of the in the office, one of the directors, I noticed that they had signs all over the place. Braille and
Jenna Udenberg: Oh, cool.
Dave: guy, I said to him, I said, why do we have braille all over the walls?
, well, it's not for us. You [:Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: to make things a little bit more accessible, but then
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: side of it.
Just to be able to like follow regulations, follow
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: follow the code. Bam. We're just putting a sign with braille. It just feels like,
Jenna Udenberg: Tokenism.
Dave: yeah, I'm like, it's an automotive school man. Like, I dunno how many blind people are gonna be walking into this place. It's kind of dangerous.
Jenna Udenberg: True. You'd have to have a lot of accommodations to be a safe
Dave: Yes,
Jenna Udenberg: or blind school.
Dave: especially, and especially when it comes to electrical, right? You know, like, yeah, there's a lot
Jenna Udenberg: Hmm. Yeah,
Dave: that are able to get around very well, but
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: stuff, you really need somebody to be there with you. If you cannot see
Jenna Udenberg: Right. [:Dave: fit
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah, for sure. Like yeah.
Dave: Frankie no
Jenna Udenberg: Oof. Yeah, that'd be bad. OTA,
Dave: would be really bad. It's like, where's, where's the body? It's right there. But there's this ash was the body,
Jenna Udenberg: Yep. Safety first.
Dave: oh
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. Well, I mean even in some of my work, you know, 'cause I'm in rural Minnesota and so it's so funny, like you see it like a new intersection put in and so then you're like sitting at the stoplight and you're like, cool. Curb cut here, sidewalk. Awesome. Curb cut there, sidewalk.
o put in a sidewalk and like [:Like it's just interesting the policies we put in place. And some of 'em do make sense and other ones you're like, yeah, no. So yeah.
years? A few [:Look, I'm, I don't, I'm not the person that, that's gonna sit down and, and in Washington and do all the paperwork to get all the shit done. Hell nah. I'm just trying to be the one that's trying to raise the awareness for this shit, because let's be real, it's like, well, we have a mental health crisis in this country. Okay, we got Jen over here. I've had other people on. Let's
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: it like what exactly is this quote unquote mental health crisis. And it's, it's a lot. It's, it, it's a Mount
Jenna Udenberg: So,
Dave: crap.
u're like, well forget that. [:And now you have all these knots. And now it's just a hot mess more than it was before. But I think, you know, a lot of it is like A, we just need to slow down. B, we actually have to give a crap and care and see, like we have to value the voices and the stories and the lived experiences in order to do better.
'cause we all know better in some way, shape, or form. But it's that application of it. And it's also asking those curious questions and not being afraid to ask why. Like why is this policy in place for two curb cuts that don't need to be there currently? And can that money be spent somewhere else that makes something more accessible or more safe?
it's just, again, it's just [:And like what accessible means to one person isn't what's accessible to another. And like so much of dominant culture is using the word accessible all the time that I was like recently in a meeting and they're like, yeah, we did this, this sign project and wanted to make it more accessible.
Dave: Oh God,
Jenna Udenberg: And like
Dave: I
Jenna Udenberg: everything was about all the other DEIA spaces.
And like, then they did this big presentation and all the things and about universal design. I was like, this is super awesome and don't get me wrong, this project is awesome. It did amazing things for other populations and for art. But then I said, okay, so in your presentation there's nothing in here about accessibility.
my community and my culture? [:Dave: There's a lot of meshing and a lot of mixing of things. That's what
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dave: the worst part is? Is, and I hate this with a die hard passion, a term that they've been using the past couple of years, which is compartmentalization. So this idea of where you take one thing and then you lump it together with something else, because like you said, falls under accessibility, it falls under disability and everything kind of fall same thing.
Like we were talking earlier with autism. It's like is a spectrum. What the fuck does that even mean?
Jenna Udenberg: Right.[:Dave: Like
Jenna Udenberg: much everything is a, is a spectrum, right? We all can be different levels of X, Y, Z disability or X, y, z allergens or, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's, there's a lot. And the biggest thing is like, hi, I am Jenna. Here's, here's my personal needs instead of all my labels and my medical conditions.
You know, like, let's, let's start there.
Dave: there's a lot of things that you can learn from a person. Just by getting to know them. know,
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: I'm sure that there are plenty of people in your life that have been able to learn about you spending time with you. You know, it could be
Jenna Udenberg: Right?
Dave: be friends, and
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: always tell them, Hey, here are my limitations.
re pushing a little close to [:Jenna Udenberg: Don't go over the edge.
Dave: don't go over the edge. I know you wanna do it, but please don't.
Jenna Udenberg: Well, but it is so funny 'cause then on the flip side, some of my good friends are like, oh. They're like, Hey, let's go to this restaurant, or let's go to the store. And I'll be like, is it Jenna friendly? Oh shit, I forgot about your wheelchair. 'cause I just see you as you. And I'm like. Well, thanks and right, like, thanks that you just see me as me, but this is a huge part of me, especially as a disability activist and advocate, right?
Like I'm not just a wheelchair, but I also use that to traverse this world. So yeah, it's, it's very, very interesting,
Dave: it shapes you. So here's the thing, right? 'cause
Jenna Udenberg: right?
's also the term limitation, [:Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: it doesn't have to be like, Hey, this is who I am.
Like I'm shoving it into your face. It's just if you're getting to know me, if you're going to talk to me, you wanna get to know the work that I'm doing. This is a part of what it is.
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: Yeah.
for, for listeners that are [:And yet in some ways it seems very unfortunate, but there's so many different. Models out there, you know, the societal model of disability. The medical model of disability. And I know there's a couple more that I just learned about, but they haven't sunk in yet for me to share. Um, but it's so interesting about, you know, it's, it's about who you put around you and who comes alongside of you in those early days of your disability, whether it's a medical disability or an accident, or, you know, however you become disabled.
word obstacle or barrier or [:Dave: it
Jenna Udenberg: trail and Right.
me personally, on this day in:Dave: just shout out, by the way, there's some really great mini golf places that are handicap friendly. Like
Jenna Udenberg: nice.
Dave: oh, they're funny shit, you know? Especially ones that are indoors. You got the
Jenna Udenberg: Right?
Dave: and you got the dinosaur, you know, and
Jenna Udenberg: Oh,
Dave: those wheels be shining in the light.
You'd be like, damn, Jenna, you'd be doing some disco right now.
t if you don't promote that, [:So, yeah, nobody, 'cause we just assume, I mean we in disability culture assume as much as the non-disabled culture, but. Yeah. It's, it's just wild. And so I think having grace and having compassion for each other, and then also just being secure enough in who you are to be like, you know what? I just totally screwed that up.
I used the wrong terminology. Or I said something that, you know, you, you don't like, or don't appreciate or don't feel respected by, and I'm sorry. Help me learn. And you're also not my teacher. Like I don't always have to teach other people about disability,
Dave: No, no, you
Jenna Udenberg: but
Dave: You don't always have to be the teacher. You know, you, you do have times where you
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: It's not a 24
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: You're not working in McDonald's or Burger King.
Jenna Udenberg: Or Walmart, they're open 24.
Dave: are they? Are they in the Midwest? Because they're not out over here in the northeast.
Jenna Udenberg: Oh, they're, they're still here in the Midwest. Yes.
Dave: All right.
I [:Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: now,
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. But Perkins is not open 24 7 anymore, at least in my area, which I'm like, seriously?
Dave: I know,
Jenna Udenberg: College memory is at Perkins. What can I say?
Dave: you
Jenna Udenberg: But
Dave: one thing that, um, one thing that you touched on, which I think is, which is very true, is being able to navigate and being able to of be able to get around. You're right, though there are different types of disability. I mean, for example, in my case, like I'm dyslexic. kind of
Jenna Udenberg: Okay.
'm working, please. And he's,[:Jenna Udenberg: Any employers listening clicked right now?
Dave: I'm literally the type of person when I put it on the wretch, on the bolt, I have to remember what's clockwise and counter clock. 'cause
Jenna Udenberg: Oh yeah.
Dave: don't, so that's what I'm trying to say is like, you have to basically like learn to
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: this world. Let's be real. It was not designed for either of us. It's
Jenna Udenberg: No,
Dave: what's
Jenna Udenberg: tell Dave Righty. Tidy lefty, Lucy.
Dave: no, please don't, please don't.
Jenna Udenberg: I didn't think about that until like right now. Sorry. Sorry. All my dyslexic friends and family members.
Dave: But you get what I, you get what I'm saying though is like you have that an heightened awareness of other people around you. That's what
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: Even though it's like a majority, that does help because then you have other like-minded people. Example in your case with the work that you're doing where you're able to talk with those people that are, as we
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: the spectrum.
I.
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
are the different size, and [:Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: and understand very deeply what you're going through just on a different shoe, you know, instead of Nike, it's sad. Does, you know, or Reebok, they
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: we gotta give 'em a little credit
Jenna Udenberg: Maybe someday.
: someday. It's not, it's not:Jenna Udenberg: Nice. They tried for a comeback. They tried,
Dave: tried, they really did. But I, I think that's also the, the positive side of it, especially when it comes to communities, is the fact that we have, that, is that ability where you can talk with other peoples from different sides of disabilities and really, really get to see the deeper story behind it.
Jenna Udenberg: yeah.
is. Anyone is welcome at any [:And they're like, what the heck? This isn't accessible. I can't go to the bathroom here. I can't get in this establishment. I can't have my needs met. This is bs. We're gonna, and it's like, we thank you. Come on in. But join the whole team that's been here because we all are part of the thing. And so I'm excited that you know that large generation of Americans is gonna be joining.
how this all works together. [:Um, so, you know, like all the misnomers and the different scripts that non-disabled people have about disability community is also very interesting. Um, and there is a hierarchy, right? Like if you can move all four appendages as somebody in a wheelchair, oh, you're up here. But if you're limited in those four appendages, even though we can move them.
You're kind of down here,
Dave: Yeah, but the,
Jenna Udenberg: but like if you're a high functioning para and you're like buff, then you're like up here, you know? So it's like there are different parts of disability culture that are still,
there, there are, but I, you [:Jenna Udenberg: and likewise, right? Yeah, for sure.
Dave: I, I think that, again, like that hierarchy and putting people on pedestals, I think is kind of redundant. because
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: that way, right?
Jenna Udenberg: No.
Dave: well, there's only one form of disa disabled. Okay? People are different. You have all
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: of people. You have literally almost 8 billion people on this planet, know?
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: Like we said earlier, there are people that get hit by a bust and then they're paralyzed in in the wheelchair for the rest of life. There are people that go through cancer and lose a limb. There are people that have mental health issues. There are people that
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: there are people that have Down syndrome. are
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: many different things,
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
again, I'm not throwing out [:Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: the real, they grew up in an era where mental health was insane and
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: crazy.
People, any form, you know, you had to be perfect. You had to be, you know, you don't get angry, you stay calm, you stay relaxed. Ev,
Jenna Udenberg: keep up with the Joneses. Have the right purses. The right shows, the right
Dave: right.
Jenna Udenberg: boats.
Dave: So what do you
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: to those people now when they're living in an environment like we were talking about, where. It's a lot more awareness. We have technology where people are able to communicate virtually. They feel like they have some privilege that, you know, I've been around longer than you and I should be getting these things before you 'cause I've suffered more than you have. I
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm. Or I've put more into the system, so therefore I should get from the system before you do.
Dave: boo,[:Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: it's being
Jenna Udenberg: And I think, you know what, oh, go ahead.
Dave: No, it's being entitled. That's what I'm getting at,
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. Yep. And it's where do we put the value on life, right? Why do we say that somebody that has this mental brainpower is more important than somebody that has that mental brainpower or somebody that has this ability or skillset is more important or more valued than somebody with this skillset.
doing the hard work or just [:So, and I get it. 'cause I beat myself up all the time too. Like Gutenberg good. You just said bananas instead of the other C word that you said earlier, like, I'm trying to get that outta my vocabulary. 'cause again, that is not okay. So it's like bananas bonkers. Lose 'em. Yeah. That's not even good. I don't know.
Dave: no, I'm, I'm gonna stick with bitches. It has a ni it has a nice ring to it. No, but I think, I think that you have, I think you have a good point though, where we can't fix this problem nationwide. That's a
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
that we have is community by [:Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: you can do more change there than you can do nationwide. That's all we can do.
s like, right, you, you just [:Like, all we can do is what we can do, and then we just have to let it go and hope that the, the tree grows, hope that the seed is planted, hope that the next choice that they make, they'll think about increasing accessibility or, you know, changing their hiring practice or changing the way that they train their workers.
Or, you know, it's not just the physical barriers, it's also the attitudinal barriers. And, uh. Yeah,
Dave: the community
Jenna Udenberg: there's just, there's a lot. Yep.
a very pivotal point because [:Nobody's robbing each other. Everybody's taking care. Great. We wanna make sure that there's local businesses, so there's some revenue that's going back in our community. Great. We got all that shit too, you know?
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
how we as humans are able to [:Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: all sit down at the table and discuss
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: what we need from this community.
Jenna Udenberg: Yep. That reminds me of, uh, Judy Humans. Great quote, and I'm probably gonna butcher it, but the gist of it is everybody made sure that everybody was at the table, but nobody checked to make sure the table was accessible.
Dave: I know.
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I got to the last part and I was like, oh, you even got me, Judy. Dang it. You know, like,
Dave: wasn't even Judy Garland,
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: it was the other
Jenna Udenberg: No. Right. She had ruby wheels instead of ruby slippers.
Dave: Oh
Jenna Udenberg: But yeah,
Dave: no, but you know what the, again, though, it, it takes
Jenna Udenberg: it takes
Dave: steps
Jenna Udenberg: steps
Dave: order to be
Jenna Udenberg: in order [:Dave: those changes. Like I gave you a great
Jenna Udenberg: mm-hmm.
Dave: I don't know if example this exists in your community, but I know that there are other communities across the nation that, for example, they're living in a place where they have more people that are disabled, right?
es and you're like here anti [:Jenna Udenberg: No. That's why I love in our work that we come alongside the business and it's like, I even, like, I just had a horrible experience at a hotel this week doing a access trip, and I was like, I'm not gonna blast them. No, but maybe an affiliate. Um, but I'm not gonna go out on social media. I'm not gonna go out on Yelp.
I'm not gonna go whatever. You know what I'm, I'm gonna deal with a chain of command and do it in a way that we can come alongside each other and make this not happen again to the next person. And then of course, if they treat me like crap, well then of course I'll, I'll go to, to the ways that you need to go about it.
But I also think that [:And it's like,
Dave: It's not.
Jenna Udenberg: what is it really? Like retrofitting completely, I understand retrofitting from like an 18 inch door to a 36 inch door or 32 inch door.
Dave: that's
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. That, that, that can be some big things.
Dave: Yeah. 'cause you're changing the whole frame, you know,
Jenna Udenberg: And the whole structure and whether the wall will stay up or will will the roof stay up? Right. Right. Like that I get, but like new construction, all that. And I'm like, if you would involve us before you, even like when you have the bright idea, but then at every single step, disability, community and culture is there.
And it's [:And then it's like, well, no, this isn't right, and that isn't right. And yeah, that's within a DA code, but none of us can use it because a DA code has such a ginormous span of like how high a toilet can be or where the transfer bars can be in a bathroom, or how high your bed can be in a hotel room. And it's just like, holy Hannah, like
Dave: It's a lot of
Jenna Udenberg: get, get right, get wheels on the ground, get white canes on the ground, like get the people in that can help you make the right decision at the right time.
And you would actually save money in the long run by making it usable by everyone. So,
Dave: It's
Jenna Udenberg: yeah.
able to be aware it's, look, [:Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: Okay? We don't have thousand year old structures here yet. We do have some from
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: tribes and stuff that, okay, but that's a whole different story.
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: of our cities. Are new. Okay? They've been built maybe
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: 80, maybe 90 years ago.
Some of them maybe have been around 150. It's not a long time compared to the rest of the world. So
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
were built outta purpose and [:Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: So now moving forward, as we progress, right, because we're cities are getting bigger and bigger and more people are moving out,
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: do we make them more accessible? And it's not just used throwing on the slap of the term. It's like we
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: having more natural environments are healthier people. Well, it's like, get your steps in, man. every time. You need to have freaking steps everywhere. It's not always necessary. Like, am am I wrong?
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: the United States is pretty flat, except some areas like you don't need steps everywhere. Can, can we do that? Hashtags don't need steps everywhere.
Like I'm not hating on exercise. I'm just saying like, you don't
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: Right? Am
s of ways to stretch reverse [:I'd be like, yeah,
Dave: Yeah, like that exact, that's exactly how it works. I just roll them backwards and forwards and I like lose a quarter of a pound each time.
Jenna Udenberg: right. Well it's, I gotta laugh. I'm on a, a trail committee and they're like, well, in the western coast of minister or of, uh, Western coast of the United States, you know, everything is in miles on signs. And I'm like, or no in time. And I'm like, your ability to walk four blocks. And my ability to traverse four blocks, whether I'm pushing or whether I'm using my firefly, all three of those are gonna be a different amount of time.
Dave: Oh yeah.
it's on the average person's [:Is it that you do a 15 minute mile? Is it, and then I'm like, uh, our batteries on e-bikes, on assistive tech devices on power chairs. It doesn't go by time. It goes by miles. So why would you not put both again, back to the very beginning of our conversation, like why does it have to be red or blue? Why can't it be red and blue?
Minutes and miles. So yeah, it's, it's an interesting time.
Dave: I am one of those that will park all the way at the end of the parking lot and be like, oh my God, that's not too far. Because again, I have no
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
ave: direction at all. Okay. [:Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: So,
Jenna Udenberg: Like, what was that?
Dave: and but, and like, to be honest, like as a person, like I drive it is sometimes confusing as hell because they don't build the roads for people that are dyslexic. Okay. They just throw a sign and you're like, oh. I'm like, oh, I'm supposed to go this way, know? And then like I'm already passing like, oh shit. You know,
Jenna Udenberg: Yep,
do. We're trying to work at [:Jenna Udenberg: yep,
Dave: country that we call the United States,
Jenna Udenberg: yep.
Dave: be able to push forward. We used to be a place that was progressive and moving towards the future. I mean, Jesus Christ, that's what all the seventies, sixties, and seventies was all about. It's like us going towards the future.
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: I mean, come on. Like, I think that's what we want for our communities is
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: isolate people disabilities, not to baby people that are autistic.
I, I freaking
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: You know, literally treat people that are in wheelchairs as if they're like the elderly in a retiring home. I. That also pisses me off. sure
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: that can also sometimes piss you off too. It's like, don't.
, you know, but usually it's [:That'd be kinda awkward. But I do weird stuff like that to people sometimes to prove the point. Like,
Dave: I love it.
Jenna Udenberg: here, lemme lean on your hip. I'm like, why are you touching my hip? Why are you on my handlebar? Oh, sorry.
Dave: I, I think, I think if I ever come outta Minnesota, I gotta lean on your handlebar to find out, you know,
Jenna Udenberg: You're gonna sit on the back of my wheel and yeah, I can see it Dave.
Dave: I literally have like, Hey Greg. Hey Greg. Aisle a 24. We have a man, um, behind a wheelchair. Hey, Greg, can you go check it out please?
Jenna Udenberg: Be like, Hey Greg, clean up on aisle nine. Jenna just attacked Dave,
Dave: There are graham crackers all over the floor. Floor.
ith uh, ketchup dispenser on [:Dave: Let me tell you right now, that dispenser will be just like a fucking murder scene. Like they'll just be splatter all over those walls. Like you see the Walmart sign, you're like fresh, and there's just like splat of ketchup all over there.
Jenna Udenberg: I told you years ago to not touch my handlebars. What?
Dave: The death of you.
Jenna Udenberg: Oh, no.
Dave: Oh yeah. Um, I was gonna ask you before we wrap up, um, I know that you have a book. I know you have your program, you do your coaching and you do your training. Do you wanna talk a little bit about your book?
Jenna Udenberg: Sure I even have it here.
Dave: Ooh.
Jenna Udenberg: So it's called within my spokes. Woo. Ah,
Dave: And that is a, that is a chunky little bugger.
Jenna Udenberg: yeah. It, it's got some things to it.
Dave: It's got
Jenna Udenberg: Um, yeah, so it was
Dave: girth,
Jenna Udenberg: [:Dave: or you make lemon
Jenna Udenberg: sometimes it's, oh, there you go.
Dave: Yeah, my
Jenna Udenberg: One of my sisters, I used to, ah, there you go. One of the sisters I taught with at a parochial school, Ella, was her thing. So.
Dave: I mean,
Jenna Udenberg: Shout out to Sister Mary.
Dave: shout out. I mean, but listen, man, if, if life throws you lemons, I am making lemon cello and getting drunk outta my mind on a beach chair. Okay. And bacon in the sun,
Jenna Udenberg: Eh, they're more fun to chuck at people in my, in my world.
Dave: oh, it's,
Jenna Udenberg: But
Dave: that's
finitely interesting. 'cause [:Um, but as I wrote it, it like, it just made sense because it's not just my story, right? Every single one of our lives intersect with each other and we're all interdependent on each other. Um, and so. I don't know. I was just really blown away by that word throughout the whole process, because there are some, you know, relationships that come into your life, some people that come into your life, and they're meant to be the long haul.
And there's other people that come into your life and they just, they're just there for a short time,
Dave: no.
Jenna Udenberg: you know? And then there's other people that are like, wow, they're deep in your tapestry, they're deep in your threads. And if they ever got yanked out, there's some big holes, there's some, there's some things.
Dave: You gotta
Jenna Udenberg: Um,
Dave: them.
Jenna Udenberg: right. [:Dave: I know
Jenna Udenberg: right? You got knots everywhere. You got strings cut off. You got strings starting again. You got slimy things. You got, you know, like whatever. Like there's, there's a lot of stuff that makes the tapestry of who each of us is.
Dave: cat in its goddamn claws. It's like, damn. Making holes in my tapestry.
Jenna Udenberg: And then they throw up their, uh, hairballs in the middle to try to fix it for you, right?
Dave: It's the worst. When they urinate on something, you're like, alright,
Jenna Udenberg: Oh,
Dave: witches. Let's go outside. We're gonna do a burning.
Jenna Udenberg: you're like, oh, no, no more tapestry,
Dave: No,
Jenna Udenberg: but,
Dave: your neighbor's looking outside are like, why do you got a bonfire burning urinated
Jenna Udenberg: What are you burning out there? What does that smell? Ooh,
Dave: Cat urine.
Jenna Udenberg: gross. Yikes.
ways of being able to write [:Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: I think there's something a little bit more personal when you're making your own memoir.
It's because, like you said, you're sharing a story. What you went through, your difficulties, how you got through that, and allowing other people to see that through their own lens. I think that's a really incredible thing about being able to tell your own story. It's
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm. Right.
Dave: different pieces as generations went on. So there, there is that deeper story where you are putting that story out into the many stories within that tapestry. Yeah.
And I hope it inspires other [:I lived through all those pokes and prods. I lived through all those surgeries. I lived through the depression, I lived through, you know, whatever it is. And yeah, other people who were a part of my story at the time probably see it differently 'cause they lived through it. As a caregiver, as a family member, as a friend, as a classmate, as a teacher, you know, whatever story I'm sharing and their story is just as important.
hole point of of life, right?[:Dave: It
Jenna Udenberg: So,
Dave: No, and it's, it's hard to be able to get your story out because
Jenna Udenberg: yeah.
Dave: like. You, you're not giving it the right justice or it's not the right time. You know, we come up with
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: excuses, but I think to be able to not only be a teacher, but to be an advocate and be able to tell your own story through your own words, it's not easy, you know, to think that it's like some movie with Anne Hathaway, you know, where she gets a bright idea, you know?
uld have decided to give up. [:You can, you can sink in. You don't
Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: You
Jenna Udenberg: right. For most of it, I didn't, there was some times. But sometimes you have to do the things to self preserve, to, you know, take care of the things you need to take care of. But that's just not a part of my chemical makeup, ultimately of why I'm here and what I'm doing and the family I was born into.
And you know, you make things better because you're there. At least that's the hope, the goal.
ions or thoughts or ideas to [:Like obviously, you know, like you get those notions of like, oh, well what happens? You know, if I was able to live a normal life, you know, I was able to see things like most people, or do things like most people, that's boring as fuck. Okay's boring as hell. It's good to be a little interesting. You know? Adds a little character. Makes you a little bit more, what's the word? A little crazy.
Jenna Udenberg: Unique.
Dave: Or
Jenna Udenberg: Little different.
Dave: different,
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: yeah. think it's
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. It makes it more adventurous too. Like I don't, I don't wanna be plain and bland and all the things. I mean, every once in a while, having a plane or bland day would be great, don't get me wrong. But more often than not, that's, that's just not the reality of a disabled person's life.
'cause your body betrays [:Dave: You know what?
Jenna Udenberg: but.
Dave: something you don't even realize yourself, right? You are around all of these people, your family, um, people you might have even taught, or maybe people that you run into just on a day-to-day basis, and you don't realize how you inspire them, we're they may run into other cases of people that may be disabled may have a completely different way of reacting than they would've
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: Just by
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: you and knowing the work that you're doing, it's like you are fixing the problem. You just don't actually get to see it.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. And I, and I would also flip it on the other side too, is like, we're also not people's inspiration porn.
Dave: No.
Jenna Udenberg: that happens a lot.
Dave: Oh God.
Jenna Udenberg: [:Dave: No, it's, it's just a
Jenna Udenberg: Like
Dave: black. What are you doing with the black beans? making
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: on Tuesday.
Jenna Udenberg: so amazing. You're out of, you're out of the home and you're, wow.
You're wait, you're by yourself. Where's your caregiver? How can you be out by, you know, and it's just like, so, yeah. You know, it's just checking your motives, checking your intentions. Checking, yeah. All the things. Um,
Dave: wanna hear something funny? So somebody, this in
Jenna Udenberg: yeah.
Dave: industry, I had to explain to somebody, one of my classmates, a Braun ability vehicle is.
Jenna Udenberg: Oh,
Dave: it turns out like there's a lot of technicians that have no idea what accessible vehicles are. Like the ones where the doors flung out, or the ones that where you're
Jenna Udenberg: mm-hmm.
erson, like I've been around [:Jenna Udenberg: Nice.
Dave: a long time. So like as an automotive tech, I'm like, wait a minute. You don't understand. Like they have air suspension, you don't understand.
Like they have high hydraulic hinges. So these doors and things are open. They're like, a minute, so how do, this is my favorite one. It's like, oh my God, how do they hit the pedals? And I'm like, dude, we, we literally took an electrical course, man. Like there's a
Jenna Udenberg: There's a
Dave: wheel. Like there's either a buttons or a knob or a lover. And again, like in the same industry. We're in the same reheat industry. And I know about this and I'm like, I think like I'm being weird. And I'm like, how the hell do you not know about this? Like on cars. Like while probably never gonna work on a vehicle like that. How do you know you're never gonna work on a vehicle like that?
You don't know.
Jenna Udenberg: Like we still go to dealerships, we still get our oil changed. We still do all the things
Dave: still made by the [:Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: you know, like, you're like, go, Hey Rick, what's the buttons on the steering wheel? That's and the gas. But I thought the pedals are supposed to be at the bottom, man. That's, that's, that's the accessible vehicle. Oh shit. I didn't realize that dumb ass is making
Jenna Udenberg: Or my favorite.
Dave: for what?
Jenna Udenberg: Right. Well, and then my favorite is too, is when I come wheeling into a place and they're like, oh, it's a female. Oh, it's a disabled female. Oh, we're in a baffler with our BS of like all these acronyms and all the things in the automotive world. And I'm like, Nope. And then this system connects to that system, and this is the primary computer, but this is the secondary computer and this is the accommodation, and this is what this does.
botics, so I get the general [:No, that's in your conversion. I'm like,
Dave: No, it's not.
Jenna Udenberg: I'm pretty sure my lift system is working just fine. There's a rattle in the rear end. Well, no, no, no. It's hiding behind your conversion. I'm like, all right. So like going on with conversion place. I'm like, Hey, well you're fixing the ramp and doing the maintenance.
Can you double check what this is? They're like, yeah, that's actually in your van. And so like I still have a rattle in my rear end and my family laughs that I say it that way, but that's how Jenna speaks. So yes, I have a rattle in my rear end that nobody will find.
Dave: is it a
Jenna Udenberg: 'cause they keep blaming each other. Uh, no.
It's a town and country.
Dave: uh, what year?
Jenna Udenberg:: g from the wheels, or is it, [:Jenna Udenberg: Right? Um, I would say more out by the wheels. So like, I thought it was like, potentially even like the struts or something like that. And it's, and it's not all the time, it's just from time to time.
Dave: Okay. So it might be your wheel bearings. Um, you know the, that's right behind the, the rotors. wheel bearings, they have bushings in them. It's possible How many, how many miles do you have on it? You might have the bushings worn in the wheel. Bearings could possibly just on that, but by the way, two.
Jenna Udenberg: There you go.
Dave: To your point though, like this stupidity of a little techie over here, the stupidity of the lift kits or for example, the accessible hinges doors, or for example, the
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.[:Dave: the, okay. Anybody that's listening to this, all right. These companies work along with the manufacturer. So
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: example, for a lift kit, they'll usually put in, um, what's called an accessory battery. So there'll be a separate battery and they'll usually be a separate either smart fuse box, like a B, CM or something that connects, so it can integrate with the computer system in the vehicle. But the company that makes these kits design them specifically. So they're just fit and play so they don't interfere with anything else in the car. So like, to your point, it's hilarious when you have the dealerships that are like, it's your lift kit. but it's, there's no leaks on the floor. I'm not getting any warning lights and the lift kit is going up and down.
So how is it the lift kit? You see what I'm saying? You know it's
Jenna Udenberg: Right. Yep.
rney ahead of me. know that. [:Jenna Udenberg: But see?
Dave: if I got a disabled person with a, with a vehicle. 'cause I'm gonna be working with BMW. I'm telling you right now, I'm gonna be that bitch that's gonna go up, even though I put my foreman and be like, listen, do not make me call up this person and blame the lift kid.
I swear to God. I swear to
Jenna Udenberg: Right.
Dave: will not make that phone call.
Jenna Udenberg: Well, and then it's so funny too, 'cause they're like, we don't have a, a hoist that's big enough for your van. I'm like, it's a freaking minivan. And then I'm like, okay. I'm like, but you service the ambulances for the, the county, right? Yeah. Pretty sure. My van can't be more heavier, more weird than an ambulance.
I mean, maybe 'cause I am unique, so therefore my, my devices probably are unique, but,
Dave: lifts, work off of hydraulic power, and they're designed to handle an excessive amount of weight. It's
Jenna Udenberg: right,
ting the arms underneath the [:Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: body, and then your car basically like rips and tears.
You're like, oh, shit. I'm like, yeah. Oh shit.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. Well then I have to laugh too, 'cause people assume that I have hand controls. So then they're like, well, we can't drive your car from your house, our shop, or whatever. I'm like, Y yeah, yeah, yeah, you can, because I drive with my legs. Oh you do. I'm like, how will you ask a curious question instead of making an assumption?
d take behind the wheel and, [:Dave: push
Jenna Udenberg: So I was like,
Dave: You can push, um, sorry for asking. You can push both of the pedals or do you have
Jenna Udenberg: yeah,
Dave: okay.
Jenna Udenberg: yeah. So I drive any regular vehicle set up kind of a thing. Yeah.
Dave: That's actually kind of
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: It saves 'em money too.
Jenna Udenberg: For sure. Um, and then I have throughout my medical journey, also used a left gas pedal. So that's a little mind altering to people to be like, wait, you drive left footed? I'm like, yes, I can be ambidextrous when needed. It, it is a mind meld for a little bit to be like, huh. But
Dave: The next question is gonna be
Jenna Udenberg: Next question.
Dave: can Jenna drive a manual car? Okay, let's not push too far. All right.
Jenna Udenberg: If I wanted to, I could, but I don't want to. So No thanks. I rode with my brother enough when he was a teenager. Mm,
Dave: God.
Jenna Udenberg: no.
Dave: No, it You know [:Jenna Udenberg: Right,
Dave: throw up our flags and have a whole month of celebration and all that crap.
No. What it is, is that it allows me in my career. For example, me working in the automotive to have a better understanding of, for example, somebody like yourself that brings, so that's, that's what I can do. Or for example, in my case,
Jenna Udenberg: right,
Dave: with podcasting, bring people on such as yourself and have a goddamn honest conversation about this.
Jenna Udenberg: right.
Dave: It's just being able to have just at the very beginning, right, because everything takes time, you know, little bit by bit. Just
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
ve the people that have that [:Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: way higher than we ever had. Because let's be honest, like if you go back, you even 40 years ago, what were the chances of you running into people like me Slim?
Jenna Udenberg: Slim to none. Right?
Dave: Here we are
Jenna Udenberg: What's the chance that I, what's the chance that I'd be a master level educator, own my own nonprofit, live independently, and own a van, that Brown ability created
Dave: and wrote a memoir.
Jenna Udenberg: and wrote a memoir and yeah, have a nonprofit. Nah. You know?
Dave: it's a lot.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: But we've come a long, that's the thing. We've come a long way a society and it's, it takes little bits of steps to be able to, to get there. I mean, you know what, maybe sometimes it doesn't happen in our lifetime, but at least we did what we can to leave the next generations and whoever comes next to maybe do
Jenna Udenberg: Yep.
Dave: thing.[:Jenna Udenberg: Or at least question why we're doing what we're doing.
Dave: yeah. And see
Jenna Udenberg: That'd also be good,
Dave: yeah. Why it doesn't really make any sense. Oh, um,
Jenna Udenberg: also the unction to like want to do better. So then therefore they will research and they will do better. Or at least try trial and error. It's all good, right?
Dave: Just don't fail too much. You know? 'cause that, that starts costing trillions of dollars for some very strange reason I. I don't know why.
Jenna Udenberg: least learn. Learn from the failures. Failures. Don't just keep failing, but learn from the failures.
Dave: the trillion dollars towards something that actually works, you know? 'cause like it's a lot of money, you know? It could do a lot
Jenna Udenberg: It's
n. where can these wonderful [:Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
so, uh, website above and beyond with u.org. Um, and it's the capital U for Edenberg, not YOU. You're not gonna find us that way. Um, so above and beyond stands for going above and beyond, uh, a DA, that the a DA is just the floor, but we want to go to the ceiling. And with u is a nod to my music education career because little kindergartners, five year olds could not say denberg and many adults can't either.
Sometimes I can't. So they hyphenated my name to miss you. So above and beyond with you. And you can find us on Insta and Facebook and LinkedIn and, uh, memoir you can find on Amazon or wherever you buy your books. And there's also a link on our website.
Dave: so you got everything one place. So if you're
Jenna Udenberg: Yep,
and beyond with you.org. It's[:Jenna Udenberg: you got it.
Dave: kind of nice ring to it.
Jenna Udenberg: It does.
Dave: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: I worked hard to figure these things out, just like within my spokes, like,
Dave: I
Jenna Udenberg: oh, is that a biking, is that a wheelchair thing? Is that, whose spokes are you in?
Dave: I, I look to anybody that's listening, like, I will urge you to check up book because this cover is, first of all, this cover is beautiful. This is a really beautiful cover. You know, it's like
Jenna Udenberg: Thanks. It's,
Dave: where did you take that? Where did you take that?
Jenna Udenberg: it's actually from Camp Courage in Southern Minnesota, so nod to all the disability camps and, uh, it was actually at my, uh, bestie slash Disability Mentor's wedding. That was at Camp Courage and my other bestie took the picture. So it's like, yeah, it's very fitting, very, very meaningful. And there's other, some other pictures, black and white in the book.
So you get to see Jenna, you get to see a little Jenna, as well as older Jenna.
Dave: that's awesome. No, [:Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: and it's got a little, little photographs bit
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: let your mind 'cause a memoir, you're not the audience create their own visuals.
You're giving them
Jenna Udenberg: Right?
Dave: right. To see and
Jenna Udenberg: Mm-hmm.
Dave: story.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
Dave: And
Jenna Udenberg: And it is so cool. Eventually my audio book will be out. I'm hoping for July, but
Dave: you
Jenna Udenberg: we'll see.
Dave: Are you narrating?
Jenna Udenberg: am narrating. Yeah, so it's so funny. People that know my voice and then they read my book, they're like, oh, it was like you were telling me your story, like I could hear your voice in my head. So even more impetus to go by the memoir and all proceeds from my book go to benefit, uh, above and beyond with you.
So it's all a direct connection and, and continuing the work. So.
ng. Be sure to check Jen out [:Jenna Udenberg: Thanks Dave.
