Episode 243
#243 - Interview with podcaster Ashe Woodward
Horror author and high school teacher Ashe Woodward. Joins the pod for a brilliant, genre-loving ride through indie film. The writing trauma, and the power of monsters. We talked about why horror is having a renaissance. How creepy stories help kids process real-life fears. Seeing how the horror genre remains one of the most inclusive, and creative outlets. Also, emotionally honest spaces in storytelling.
Ashe breaks down the problem with glossed-over cinema. The joys of Canadian horror community. Why practical effects and campy weirdos still matter. From Deadpool to The Handmaid’s Tale. It’s a deep, funny, and heartfelt conversation. About how scary stories can save us, and why some of the best art comes out of the strangest places.
Where to Find the Guest
🌐 Website: https://ashewoodward.com
🎧 Work: The Spooky Scholars Podcast and That’s So Morbid available on major platforms:
https://open.spotify.com/show/1VqKYyRtmnuV3hglC8SPjp
📲 Social: Follow Ashe @spooky.scholars
And of course, you can find all the links for L.I.T.G, and where to listen at:
👉 www.linktr.ee/lostinthegroove
Transcript
Dave: Part about the whole experience is
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Tell me.
Dave: get to see a film, you get to meet the producers, the directors, and some of the actors that are there. And they do like a little quest, like q and a. It feels so intimate. It feels so like you're a part of this, even though you never even
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: film. Yeah.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah, I think that's one of the things we can really like, take advantage of, especially as Canada's a smaller community. But we have, so, um, we've really put a lot into our film game, so it's kind of like a good balance between that, where we're, we've got the professionalism, we've got a lot going on and we have a really great history there, but we're still such a small, intimate community that it creates that feel and you really get to see the, the, the side of creativity and not just the overproduction and then the Hollywood sheen on everything.
ewhere. It comes from a real [:Dave: I, I always go back to, because, you know, I love those avant garde like noir films, especially like psychological thrillers. Those are my favorites, but I love, like the directions. Even like Quentin Tarantino goes, even though like he's a legacy director at this point, but honestly, like he's. outcast and a weirdo and a freak, and like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): You can't hate him for that. Like,
Dave: Like
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): he's amazing.
Dave: some of these psychological thriller movies that you just sit there and you're on your fucking seat and you just want to,
st like a, a, a filmmaker or [:Like Tarantino is both right. But he's, it's because I think, you know, he, he loves what he does and he loves the history of where he comes from.
Dave: I, I love that about those films where, you know, I get it, like so many things are tied with money. Like even podcasting, you know, everybody's trying to hit the numbers and the da da da and like, don't know, there's just something so genuine of just hearing a true story that's coming from a writer, that's coming from a creator, that's coming from.
the artist Not sugarcoated, not overpainted, you know?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Filtered.
Dave: Raw,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: dirty, know, fucking disgusting.
for everything. Whereas the [:Like, that's kind of, I was just reading something today about, you know, that's where we started with Instagram. Instagram started raw, then it went to polished, filtered, and everyone went like, Ew, this is so unreal. This isn't, you're not like an influencer or you're not like a. A person on the internet like sharing something anymore, you're an influencer.
And it became a job and it became flashy and everyone wanted to be that. And that's what's gonna happen with AI and everything too. We're gonna see so many things happening with like communication with bots. We're gonna see all of our emails and communication with an AI voice and not a real human behind it.
And people are gonna reject it. And I think we're gonna get even more disgusting. I think it's what happened like with grunge, right? Like, I don't know how old you are, but that's where grunge came from. It was like, the eighties is gross, it's too shiny. Had enough of Madonna, give me a guitar in three chords and let's do this.
Like give me the heart behind something that actually has has meaning, and I can feel the creativity flowing through it.
: And then you, and then out [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, yeah, I mean, well before that, yeah, they were like, where everybody was looking was like, oh, I can make this happen with like three chords and some dumb lyrics and bad haircuts. Yeah.
Dave: you know, I saw, um. Like, even in that like period, I, I went to see Blondie a few years ago,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh wow.
Dave: like, she's well in her late seventies at this point.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. And she's still rocks, man.
Dave: she's twirling on the stage, like as if she's
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I know,
Dave: you know,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I know.
Dave: I'm just like, these people were built
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): But it.
Dave: cocaine, know, and
And you feel that that's the [:Dave: it feels, it.
feels so much more genuine. Okay. Because, look, there are plenty of people today in this generation that are doing very similar things that, that, you know, Debbie, Harry, and among a lot of other people, like even Nine Inch Nails is a great example we're doing. But there is now a harder way of not being lazy. You know, back then if you were lazy, you were just that dumb schmuck in the band, you know, playing at the bar for 29 years.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Not the bass player,
Dave: the goddamn bass player,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): bass player here just saying
Dave: the bass player, but
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I,
Dave: always get lost. But you, you then have, that's the new obstacle, that's the new strategy is like being able not to be lazy.
post on TikTok and YouTube, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): mm-hmm.
Dave: But then What happens if you get banned? What happens if you lose followers? What happens if your account gets shut down?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): What if you wake up one day and you realize you're a schmuck? Like,
Dave: that
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): you know,
Dave: often. then you.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): then you're too far along and then you don't know how to get yourself out of that. You don't know how to be real anymore because you all those muscles have atrophied and you don't know how to be creative, and that's sad. That's probably the saddest thing I can imagine happening.
Dave: You lo you,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): But
Dave: you, you lose, um, what's the word? You lose. stamina. You lose momentum. You lose momentum
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): if you had it. Yeah.
Dave: which
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: not that many people have momentum. It's like, what is momentum? Um.
ney and the advertising, um, [:There's kind of the, the good side and bad side of nobody knowing you're there. Right? Like, nobody's telling me what to do. Nobody. Which I like, but you know, it is harder to get your voice heard, but I only wanna be heard by the people that are going to really like my content. And I think they're the ones finding me, which is great.
So it's kind of the wild, wild west and I like it, you know, like I don't, I don't need to advertise, I don't like, I personally don't advertise except for people that are in my actual community. So people that are on Patreon, I will advertise that they have a brand, something spooky that goes with what we're talking about.
But like I, all of those other people that pitch me, I'm like, no, I'm not going to talk about your vitamin water and make it seem like I actually use it every day.
Dave: [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: and I. I personally, I have no problem promoting, um, artists, podcasters, writer. It doesn't matter who you are that's
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: like you wanna talk about your podcast.
I don't care, please. But the second it gets into the realm where, yet, that's what I'm here for. That's what I'm doing. That's all I care about right now. You need to love my product. You need to, you can't talk about my product in a negative way. I'm like, shut the fuck off. Nobody asked you like you, you were asking me to respect you.
Like this needs to work two ways, not one way. It
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Hmm.
Dave: way works. It works two ways, always.
edge. I mean, it's, it's not [:I mean, it's really funny, like, of course I have a day job. It's not like horror podcasting is paying the bills. So it's like, you know, I can talk to somebody about what I do during the day, which is copywriting, and we talk about strategy and how I can help them. And if they're like, oh no, we don't need anything right now.
I'm like, okay, great. Do you like horror movies? Like, can I give you my other business card? I do that a lot. And people are like, you talk about horror movies? I'm like, yeah. And they're like, and then I have, you know, I've made a friend. If not, you know, if nothing else at a networking event, you know? So I can't imagine that, you know, if someone's like, well, you don't need me.
You don't like my product, I'm not talking to you. Like, I'm sorry, you're not gonna get very far.
you find something that you [:I'm like, but I don't, I don't think my podcast needs to be strategized. I think it's fine the way that it is, you know?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, I only need to strategize it if I have a very specific goal that you think I have. Right. And then, okay. But if I'm here because I wanna just use it for self-expression and meet people, I think I'm doing just fine.
Dave: Being able to make
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: with people. And again, you know,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
sight, especially with your, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: not only that is, like I was saying earlier, there's so many different layers to it as well. You know, when you go into that perspective, you're working with this idea of manipulating with the mind, you know, having something that only one person sees, or how the shadows manipulate the way that a person's mind, you know, adding that music in there just bumps up, you know, just bumps up Just a little.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Just a little.
Dave: Um, right. Am I wrong here?
nd you hear actual authentic [:Like we don't get too polished. I don't know. I mean, people have a choice. You can be that strategic podcast and be a top 100 or, you know, know your place and be happy where you are. Just using it for self-expression. I think that's important too.
Dave: It is. No, I also, like I was saying also, um, before, and I think like when you, when you surround yourself with art and you know, you, you yourself are a creative person. Being in those social circles are so important, you know, to be able to be around other artists and be able to talk to other
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yes, yes.
erious. I've had some of the [:But like, they're fun. They're fun, you know, and I look forward to them. I'm like, please ask me the uncomfortable question. For God's sakes. Nobody does.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, yeah, I think that's, if that's part of being like a creative, we really don't like the, um, the, what's it called? Like the small talk or the, you know, not going deeper into questions, kind of talk. I mean, of course you have to do that to get to know each other. Look at us, we talked about the weather, but then it's like, okay, so like, what's real?
What's, what's fake? You know, let's talk about that.
Dave: No, you know what, like, it's a way of being able to get to know people too. You know, I think, I know that you're, um, you very much love the genre of horror, but I feel also something that.
le to have those experiences [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh yeah.
Dave: to something you Never experienced. before
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Never
Dave: and you're like, oh my God, this is,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: is amazing.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. I mean, you can't, if you pigeonhole yourself, you're just becoming, you know, narrow-minded and you're gonna end up being further in that silo and your algorithm is just gonna be against you, right? Like you have to be open to everything. Um, but having a community is, is key. I mean, with the, with the podcast, that's what I've been trying to build, right?
Is people that not just are listening to the topics, but then can engage with them and share what they think about 'em. 'cause otherwise, it's just me and a microphone, and that's great for me. But I mean, I love to hear what other people think of the things. Like, I'm genuinely asking you, like, you know, am I way off base?
Guys? Let me know. Um, so hearing what other people think and hearing those different perspectives, it's, it's important. It's a conversation that I wanna have, not just me like spewing things into, into the airwaves. Right?
Dave: Don't we just love [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Hmm.
Dave: And especially like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Especially like,
Dave: there's a lot of like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): there's lot of like,
Dave: you know, we're
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): oh yeah.
Dave: I. You get people, okay. This is one of my favorite things. Um, this doesn't only affect the, you know, the horror or psychological or even films or music or whatever you wanna talk about this idea of over-exaggerating situations and scenarios.
Okay? I love this. You
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
Dave: people that literally sit on their ass all freaking day, and then what do they do? They post a video, like, I guess you've never seen this about this movie. And then, you know, for like a good minute, you're just wasting your life away of watching like this 32nd clip in a movie you watched like 15 years ago. you're like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I know.
Dave: okay, did I really,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, I mean,
Dave: need a,
e clickbaity. But if they're [:Right? Like they're playing the game.
Dave: know.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I think I like that they acknowledge it. Like even me, like I have to write descriptions for the episodes. I don't really like writing them that way, like with like buzzwords and like, I don't know, it just sounds so cheesy Sometimes they like it when you add emojis, and I'm like, okay, fine.
But like, I don't know. I, my, I really would rather come at it from a more like natural con like conversational kind of way, and not just have to be speaking to the bots that are scraping my words, you know?
Dave: What I think it was hilarious. Right. Recently we had, um, I think it was ATU that came out recently,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
s new movie either. But it's [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Interesting to see.
Dave: where you've gotten these campy, cheesy. Do you know how many times I've watched a new movie recently and I'm like 20 minutes in. Okay. Um, it's gonna end like this.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
Dave: I predicted the ending in 20 minutes of watching the movie.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: I'm done.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Or I can't watch it. I can't watch it pass like the 20 minute mark. 'cause I'm just like, this is not going anywhere and I don't care what happens.
Dave: what the hell?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. Like, what the hell?
Dave: they've been saying since the thirties. Come on. New
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: Get some crack heads
cle that we respond to. Like [:I mean, yeah, that's of course been done since, you know, the beginning of time, but it's also what we respond to. So you veer too far out of that to be artsy and new. It just becomes drl. And I think a lot of, especially like new filmmakers, they don't realize that. Or if people think, oh yeah, this is totally new, but nobody's going to have a human response to it.
So, and then there's the other side, of course, which is like delving too much into that and taking the hero cycle literally, and making superhero movies until they're dead. And you know, we're just like, okay, we get it. You have lots of money and these are great effects, but like, I'm just so over what's happening to Thor?
I don't care anymore.
Dave: I mean Christ. Like are they gonna make a Marvel world? Like we have Nintendo World, can we get a Marvel world? You know, so you could make more movies because if they're gonna make more movies, they're gonna need to
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
Dave: add more rides. Because Star Wars is already just a theme park at this point.
just making theme parks. So [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: the direction of Marvel. You know, maybe we can make Marvel stores and see if we can make more money there. You know, it it, the issue that comes into, right, I think the both of us can agree. We like good storytelling. I like a good
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: doesn't have to be a hundred percent real. It doesn't have to make a hundred percent sense.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Nope.
Dave: It just has to be something enjoyable. You know, you can either watch it with a partner or you could watch it with a friend. You know, you could just put it on randomly and just be able to just get into the motion. We're missing a lot of that, and it's not just podcasters that are saying this, and it's not just movie lovers and it's not just people that are in the industry. It's a lost art. You know, it's hard to make stuff like this, like I'm talking outta my ass right now, but it's hard To make this stuff.
eal story. Right. And that's [:They're just so glossy and so just like, boom pow, look at this shiny thing and like effects. And I'm just like, I don't really know what's happening here. Like, I've lost the plot guys. Like literally. And you know, I'm going back to physical comic books. Thank you very much. 'cause you've ruined this. It was really exciting at the beginning when those super hero movies were, were happening.
Like Spider-Man one, you know, that was great. But I think we took it too far.
Dave: Well, I, I think the pinnacle was, you know, in the nineties, up in the early two thousands, but in the nineties they had, Graphic novels, which kind of stemmed into my childhood as
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Hmm.
Dave: And the cool thing about those graphic novels, you know, you got series like Deadpool that came out of those graphic novels and it was a nice change for a lot of people.
e first time in a long time, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Anti-hero? Yeah.
Dave: the nineties, like people don't understand, like, uh, I think his name is Ryan, I think Ryan Reynolds, that portrays Deadpool,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: job And is like extremely inappropriate and kind of on key. Deadpool in the nineties was way worse, like way, way, way worse. Just the graphic images that are in these graphic novels, like, holy shit. it, that's what people were wanting. They wanted that, that, like you were saying earlier, like that grunge, that, you know, the proto punk, you know, the, the, the metal. You know that, that dirty grimy. And it worked. mean, hey, we got Deadpool
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And it, I mean, I, I, I grew up in the nineties, so I remember like, it was, it was a sexy time. Like sex was
Dave: everywhere.
sexy storyline, the scantily [:And I mean, a lot of people are holding Deadpool, um, accountable now, which is just like, no, it was, it was a product of the times. Like, we have moved on, it's a little bit shinier. We're just now questioning whether we got too shiny.
Dave: You know what though? I think if I can think of one superhero movie that has come out in the 21st century, hands down, Deadpool is one of my favorites for the sheer fact that. It didn't follow any of the social norms. It was inappropriate, disgusting from start to finish and it left a mark. Like
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I'm trying,
Dave: if I can think of any superhero movie, that one is the most memorable out of all of them.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I'm trying to think of mine. Obviously none of them are very memorable to me,
Dave: Uh,
(like 'Geisha'): I dunno. Uh [:Dave: Mm-hmm.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. That's memorable. Um, because that was the first one that, you know, where we saw, oh, they're going to do something with this. That's actually bringing the characters off the page to life.
Not, it wasn't like, you know, far off. It was actually what we imagined in our minds what wolvery would be, what mystique would be like. That was, that was a pivotal moment. But like I said, we've got too far.
Dave: too far.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I mean, but I'm always like a Batman fan. Like, but like eighties Batman really like turned everything around for me too, right?
Like. Even the Batman that people hate Batman Returns is still wonderful. It's so campy and weird and everyone hates it, but I love it.
Dave: you know what though? I think that Tim
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I think that
Dave: Batman
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Batman Forever. Sorry, I meant Batman forever.
Dave: Forever?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Batman Forever is the campy one with Poison Ivy. Batman Returns is my favorite, which is Catwoman and Penguin.
Dave: Um, lemme see, because
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): A Christmas movie.
Dave: which [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Remember which one? Um, the first two.
Dave: right? Yeah. The one that came out in 89. Right. 'cause Batman
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah,
yeah.
Dave: with Val Kilmer. Yes.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): the can't be weird one that everyone hates, but I still like that one too.
Dave: You know what, you know what though, is it's very much, it's a cartoon, you know, that's brought
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
n series that came out in the:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, it was so,
Dave: campy.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): so, yeah,
Dave: it. I mean, I definitely loved the
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I loved it too.
Dave: was that psychotic
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Caesar Romero. Yep.
ur bed. You'd be wet in your [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Up.
Dave: Dick Tracy back in the thirties and forties.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh.
Dave: But then you have these creators, these storytellers, these artists come along and they take these stories and they, they pour their whole mind into it. Then, like we were talking about, like even like Batman Forever, and people forget about, even the Tim Burton one that came in at 89 was not, eh, but a lot of people love it today.
It's, it's awesome. I mean, it's got Danny DeVito all right. He's got Danny DeVito as the penguin.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, that's, well, that's the second one. That's Batman Returns.
Dave: in,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): The first one was The Joker with Jack Nicholson.
Dave: so he's in Batman forever.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): No, Batman Returns.
Dave: Oh my God. I'm getting,
was with Jack Nicholson and, [:Dave: over here.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Kim Bessinger. And then the second one was Michelle Pfeiffer. Danny DeVito and Paul Rubins. And, um,
Dave: Batman returns was 92,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Who's the bad guy? Who's the
Dave: was nine
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): bad guy?
Dave: In which one?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): The guy that always, everyone has an impression of him. Oh God, why am I blanking?
Dave: Um, you're talking about the.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mr. Bad, Mr. Bad guy himself. I am losing my mind. Hold on. Thank you. Christopher Walken.
Dave: That
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: hilarious. You know, I was watching a clip with him the other day. Uh, you know, 'cause he's very much a stereotype.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: and he moves
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: and there's this guy, it was just being really polite, just walked up to Christopher Walken and said, Hey, I'm a really big fan, you know, I don't mean to bother you.
nds. He's like, what is this [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Classic.
Dave: Christopher Walken. And I was just like, man got better than an autograph.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Dave: down.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Because you can tell also like he loves what he does. That means that includes meeting the people that also appreciate your work, right? Like that comes through.
Dave: feel like even somebody like Danny DeVito, if you ran into him, I guarantee you he's probably like the sweetest person you'll ever meet
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh yeah. I mean, they're just people.
Dave: just people, and the reason is, is an artist, and I think we can see eye to eye with this, you see an artist like that, which obviously he's not the most attractive guy, he's pretty small.
as a freaking actor like he [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: That's a true
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. I mean it. And that's character, right? Like, because it's not always the, the best looking and the shiniest the most polished person that's really, nobody wants to see that. People need character. Like in your, in your personality, in your face. I mean, if you really look at actors more like closely, sure, there's your Brad Pitts and you know George Clooney's.
Okay. But then, you know, there's also like Julia Roberts and she's beautiful, but she also has character to her face. She's not really like classically like model beautiful Reese Witherspoon, you know? Like she is a little bit odd looking, but she's pretty. But it's because there's character in her face and that's something that, you know, if people know how to work it, that's what will get you there.
It's not just always the prettiest, you know, the the model looking person that's really gonna capture your attention because partly it's because they don't look like real people.
Dave: It's being able, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: of people that we see even in this sector in regards to like podcasting or even in the writing sector, or how many of them are fake in the sense they're
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh my God.
Dave: putting on an act, why just be yourself. You like really hate yourself that much.
Like what's wrong with being yourself representing who you are? Like it's baffling.
s not non-existent, and just [:Right? So until you realize that's actually not possible, you know that that's the secret. That's like the Santa Claus that we didn't tell you. It's like really not possible to let everybody like you or fit in unless you really have compassion for yourself, right? Until you get there. And some people it takes a longer time.
So I don't know.
Dave: wanna go down this avenue, but I think I should. 'cause I feel like you're the right person to talk to about this.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Ooh,
Dave: killers. Uh,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): are they being authentic? Is that what you're gonna ask me?
it in such a emotional list, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To a, a detriment into a nega very negative space. Yeah.
Dave: Yeah.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): mean, I, I, true crime is, is like a whole thing. I don't know if I'm like the true crime person to like, comment on it.
Dave: I just feel like this is one of the things that a lot of, especially in films, they get wrong
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
still adding a little bit of [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah,
Dave: they are right.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): the psychology. Yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, as long as people have been studying serial killers, we still don't really get it. That's, that's the mystery, right? Like, how can you, are you human? You know, because, and that's the question that comes up for me. We have, you know, talks about if there's like a horror movie that features just a, just a killer, right?
This isn't a, this isn't a Freddie or a Jason or a Vampire. This is a, a human.
Dave: centipede.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): this is a, oh, well that's a human. So it, you know, so
Dave: right, you're right, you're right. Sorry.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): the question is like, is that, is that a monster? Like when do we start calling that person a monster? When do we start calling or seeing that person as monstrous, aside from being human, right?
ou and your brain that makes [:Like, Hmm. I gotta think about my own question.
Dave: no, no, no, no, no. What I'm thinking about is this, we're, when we think of people, because obviously we're in communities, we're in neighborhoods, you know, you only know people from the surface level. Like, let's be honest
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: like even the people that you're the closest with. How much time are you actually spending with them? know, you're, you're interacting with them, but you're not totally in their life all the time.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, I mean, the number one killer of women is their husbands. You know, and like all those serial killers people said, oh my God, he was such a nice guy. He's just a friendly guy in my neighborhood. Meanwhile, he's, you know, one of the famous serial killers in Canada is Paul Bernardo, and that's what everyone said about him.
like a clean cut, nice guy. [:Dave: know, but doesn't give you, like, I, I don't feel like it should be used as a fuel of paranoia where you should be terrified of every single person you interact with. What I'm trying to get at is, is that even for myself, like in my cushion of what I call trauma, it's just being able to understand, like being able to have boundaries. Understanding your limitations and know when to be alert. Like to be able to pick up on, and I hate to say this as somebody like I've been in really fucked up situations. Like there are things you could pick up early on. You're like, okay, let's go.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): This is why we watch horror movies.
Dave: I
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): This is why we watch them.
Dave: it.
but I think it's like maybe [:And so, you know, we know what to watch for. We watch for those creepy signs and red flags. But, you know, I think it makes us stronger and smarter.
Dave: I, I always. Because I was, I was raised, um, I was raised in a, in a Jewish home, and our idea of the devil is very different
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, yes.
would be like a gatekeeper. [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh boy.
Dave: saying, know, if you don't pass the test, your soul is mine. And, um. I was raised with this idea of where this was real. know, like very much ingrained where like this is a real thing. This is part of the world. Obviously as you get older you start to have a little bit more of clarity and understanding of what could be real and what could not be.
ple being in those scenarios [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): One of the, the stories from Judaism I really like, um, is a, a demon that's the demon of distraction. I actually, I, I've done a lot of research on this, um, for a book I was writing and I wanted to have like a, a Jewish protagonist and really looking to what is distraction, right? Like that perspective of seeing it as a demonic interference, right?
I mean, think about how that applies to what we're dealing with today, right? Like distraction of our phones, distraction of the media and all of that stuff, right? So, you're right, like it, I mean, it's not like they had those things back when the tour was written, but the distraction was always a demon, so to speak, right?
n demons at come from. Adam, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Lilith.
Dave: two, out of that incest demons. And again, like that same
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: where, what it's trying to tell you is not that sleeping with another person is bad, but explaining comes out of it.
It's, you're not only hurting the other person, but you're hurting yourself in the process. You know,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: love someone, when you care about somebody, it's coming back to you. Why do you think you feel pain when something happens?
make you make to have those [:Dave: I mean, you know, it's crazy because these things have been written for thousands of years. I mean, you know, when you go across the oceans to Asia and you look at the lore and mythology that comes out of places like the Philippines, Korea, China, and Japan, these
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yes.
like, again, the ideas that [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: amazing.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): do you know what Ampa man is from Japan?
Dave: I'm gonna Have to,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Have you ever heard of Ampa Man? The cartoon.
Dave: Google this. I'm gonna,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Okay, so I can explain it though, 'cause it's really fun. So Ampa Man is this little superhero and he's made of bread and all of his friends are like pieces of bread and toast.
Dave: seen this. Okay. Yeah,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Like, and I, if I'm remembering correctly, like he can take off pieces of his body and like feed it to people to make them better.
Like if that is not Christianity, I don't know what is, and yet Japan is not a Christian nation. I mean, I'm sure there aren't Christians there. Yes, but I mean, it's basically Buddhist and atheist.
Dave: I mean, Christianity's more prominent in like places like Korea, like the
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: Church. You're right, like Japanese is a little bit different with their culture.
e and rich with all of those [:Dave: Especially, especially those drama and dynamic stories, like especially when we're talking about superheroes,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: I love this about manga coming out of Japan. have,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: are actually pretty evil and bad. You know,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. A lot of the time. Yeah.
Dave: to their family, they're terrible to their partners, they're terrible to their friends, you just wanna keep turning page after page after page, even though you know they're horrible,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): much more disgusting is this person going to be?
Dave: I mean, you just wanna dig into there. It's just, but that is a testament to their culture. These are artists that know what's works. And this is the thing about Japanese thinking, it's engineer, well, you think thoroughly. You process efficiently. That's it. That's, that's the way that artists process and that's the end of the story.
wanna make ready gritty and [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And you can explore morality without exploring religion because that seems to be what saturates like Western culture, no matter what. Right. Because a lot of people will say things like you and I, it's like, well, I was raised as this religion. So I mean, of course that comes out in our work, but if you're from Japan and you're used to a culture where you know there's no Christianity and you know, the religion doesn't really interfere with your government or you know, the school teachings, right?
That's a very different way to view the world and to create from.
Dave: The wildest part is, you know, we have this idea in this country, which is separation of church and state,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: have an
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): You have an idea? I don't know if it's,
Dave: idea.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): it's in practice.
Commandments were [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, or in school.
Dave: in Texas.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: And I just,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. And Oklahoma. It's there.
Dave: which, by the way, Oklahoma is a native and indigenous state. So, which is like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's even sadder.
uess who's making more money [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I think that's gonna run true, like going forward. My hope anyway. Like I really hope. Yeah. I.
Dave: are the future like.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I mean, that's, that's the same question with all the books that they're banning and the art that they ban before they end up banning the Bible for the exact same content. But it's not really about banning books.
It's not about banning art, it's about suppressing voice. Right. It's about having a cause to, you know, put Christianity in the spotlight. So it's, I don't know, it runs deep in America. It really does. I mean, Canada's not immune to it. We do have some book banning here, but it's not the same because we don't have that strong, um, Christian nationalism vibe for the last of a lack of a better word.
Dave: the, the thing that Americans don't understand is in Canada, and correct me if I'm wrong, you get a
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: English, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh yeah. It's like Texas and New York. It's like,
Dave: and the people that are living there, the conditions that they're living under, the environments that they're under are completely,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: think that's something where this plays in, where you cannot put everybody into a box. I'm not saying you gotta slap labels on everything. All I'm saying is just having a little bit of open-mindedness and understanding that no two people a country are living the same lives.
We gotta stop
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
bes that are there, because, [:And in many of the working class, it's like, hello,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: Start working on what is actually benefiting us, not the things that are not benefiting us.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And let's try. I mean, if it's at all possible. I mean, I think we've done the, a lot of work in the past few years of like reclaiming some history and understanding and, and lost knowledge. Of course. Sadly, a lot of that is lost and that's our fault, you know, and like Canada is pretty good at owning up to it.
that we're more independent, [:Well, if we look to that native knowledge that's been here all along, like that's how we save ourselves and you know, those are the people we're gonna have to, you know, go to with our tails behind between our legs and say like, oh, we need to learn how to live off the land. Sorry we took away all of that stuff from you, but, um, what you got left?
'cause we're gonna need that.
Dave: It is interesting because, you know, like there are, even in like the agriculture sector, you're having farmers where they're, you know, moving to having farms where not doing the same practices that.
mass
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Practices. That mass producer, yes. I'm loving that.
Dave: it's,
at. So again, just all those [:Dave: I'm trying to remember. There was
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): They're in Niagara, so they're here in Ontario. I can't remember what they're called. Wildflower wine or something like that. Something like that.
Dave: was another place, 'cause you mentioned that reminded me of there, I positive they're in Canada too. basically built like a hydroponic garden they were being growing. Um, where
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Sounds like us.
Dave: my god, my brain. Anyway, when it comes to me, I, I'll, like, it'll pop there.
But the really interesting thing about all of this is it's like not only being able to cultivate right, but it's also
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
Dave: to see and how we're able to benefit our own environment. Great example of
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: Is I live here in South Florida. I'm gonna be moving, thank the Lord in a couple of months. But
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Out of state or just different city.
Dave: At the end of the year.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh my. That's humongous.
Dave: I, I,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's a huge move.
Dave: a, i, I need some freedom. I need, I need a little,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Ooh,
interesting, the interesting [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): is it? Doesn't that make Lauren Bober your person? Isn't she Colorado?
Dave: I believe, so one of the reasons why,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's gonna be so fun. That's some fun drama. 'cause she's a trip
Dave: one of the reasons why I wanted to go out to Colorado,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I watch. I watch United States politics like it's young and the Restless. Okay. We sit up here and we're just like, oh, that's the tea. Look at freaking Gavin Newsom now.
Dave: oh my
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): You know? Like it's hilarious.
Dave: No, it like, the thing that I really love about Colorado in itself, and look like a lot of places, even to get, even in Canada, even the United States, like every place has its pros and cons.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, of course.
Dave: like not politically just mindset and thinking wise, and I just, I love this idea of where you leave me alone, I leave, you know, like. We leave each other alone. Like, let me live my life. You live your life kind of thing. And
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, you don't get that in Florida.
Dave: girl, girl. No, everybody isn't
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Sorry.
Dave: No. And it's not, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: or bad. It just means that the same way that certain artists can collaborate across the globe, right? You know, from Europe to Canada or you know, the United States to Asia. It's just being able to get over those cultural differences. Not every place is made for everybody, you know? And I, I feel that, especially even for yourself, right? When you're able to find your community, find what you love, find what you're able to create and get that out there, all that matters.
You know? And if the place is not fitting, then move
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's a brave move that is just like literally across the country as far as you could go. That's amazing. Well, good choice. I mean,
Dave: I'm, I'm,
ike what? I'm guessing, like [:Oh my.
Dave: from New York, so like I grew up like a,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Ah, okay.
Dave: up like in, like it, I grew up in Rockland County, like it, the
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Okay.
Dave: I grew up is in, is called Rockland. 'cause the whole
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): there's rocks there.
Dave: on, no, it's literally on a mountain. So we're like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Okay.
Dave: above sea level and
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
Dave: up, like a lot of the areas, like you have this in Toronto, I know this in certain years where it's very hilly. know, you,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: you
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): It's a scarp,
Dave: right? So
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): right? Mm-hmm.
Dave: and then going down hills, you're going around curves and then you're doing all the bends and stuff. So something that I didn't realize, and I have somebody to explain this to me, where wherever you grow up, your body adjusts to that environment.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh yeah. Especially elevation.
Dave: so even though I've lived in a
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. [:Dave: I think I've actually,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, it's the worst.
Dave: actually like, health wise, I'm doing pretty mad down here. And I think it's because like, I think I need to be in that environment.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I think you're too low. You might be too low. Like Florida must be low, right? And then,
Dave: higher
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): so
Dave: yeah.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. I lived in Mexico for a while in the mountains and it was, it only took like about a weekend or a week or so, but what a strange feeling. I was like, oh, it's not gonna happen to me. You know? Like it's not that much above sea level.
It was like:Dave: you know what though? Like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): What a fun adventure.
place I will say this, that [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Hmm.
Dave: which believe it or not actually was the year I went to the Toronto Film Festival.
I got like exposed to the underground, like indie, so like, kind of me leaving. I'm like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Do they have like a room springer? Like that's what it sounds like.
Dave: I'm going through like this whole thing. And then I moved overseas and then I meet a bunch of people that are from like.
Boulder and Denver, Colorado, and
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh.
Dave: exposed me to like weed the big Lebowski and like, you know, libertarian.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): You were like, screw that. I'm going to Florida.
Dave: yeah. And I'm like, literally seven years later, I'm down here instead of there. But I, I think that the universe works in that way, right? Just the way that, how like, stories start to play. Like, why don't you just get out of that house? You know, you had
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: chances to get out of that house. I've been sitting here for two,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): [:Dave: So when the universe gives you these people, you know, or gives you signs or just something comes up, I,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): opportunities.
Dave: we
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: We're just a bunch of dumb shit heads it. Just sit there like we're.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah. Sometimes it takes a while. It's true, but you know, as long as you're open, if you're always open to possibilities, I.
Dave: will tell you though, that that is one thing that pisses me off sometimes with some films is that stupid thing of them literally like, yo, you could have left like 10 minutes ago. Like,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh
Dave: are you going
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): yeah,
Dave: Why are you stop going down the basement? Like, are you dumb? What the hell?
know, you have your blinders [:Yeah.
Dave: I literally, last night I was watching Uncharted I, one of the, I don't even know what the movie is about. Like I watched like maybe a portion of it. And like in this scene they, like, they were picking up these old ships that were full of money and they're like flying them with helicopters, unrealistic. they're like trying to rob this helicopter With this boat hanging under it. And they think the genius idea is to go up on the ropes while there's another helicopter in this elite team that's got tons of monies and boats just waiting to pick up these things to go up and hijack the helicopter and then steer the helicopter in a completely different direction like the other helicopter and the other team.
into the ocean. And I'm just [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): With all the money.
Dave: I'm like, you could've just waited in the ship until they like dock the ship somewhere and then just killed
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): What kind of story is that?
Dave: right.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Okay.
Dave: Oh, I hate stuff like that because then I start being like, can I call up the director? Can I talk to the writer? 'cause I have questions, you know, like I know the Frito Lays bag has a number
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Have questions.
Dave: I.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, we've come full circle. Like that's the problem with like Hollywood filmmaking, right? You don't get that connection. You do when you're talking to indie filmmakers where they're gonna do those q and as at film festivals and you actually feel like part of the part, or you get to pick their brain, you know, like that's a really big deal.
Like you're right, it is like a product, right? We, we go to the movies or we support that film. I should be able to call a one 800 number and be like, why did she go into the basement when they told her not to? What was the point of that? Why did you put me through that?
Dave: did you put me? [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's hilarious.
ll, that's something to look [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): It's a different experience, right? Like sometimes you do want flashy and shiny. Sometimes I do wanna watch the new Star Wars to see what's up and know what's happening in that universe. But you know, then I also wanna watch like, I don't know, some weird indie film movie and go, this is so weird. Who thought of this?
It's amazing.
Dave: There's some of them that are kind of wild, like they're,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: I I, I talked about this before. Um, there was one that came out with. Moore or Demi Moore substance.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): The substance. Yeah.
Dave: What the fuck? What the fuck
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): those of you who are just listening and not seeing this on video, Dave's making a face like, what the hell?
films like this in years. I [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: year, I think maybe the.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, horror is also having a moment, it's a horror movie. And horror is having a little bit more of a, a renaissance with like, I think we need to up our game a little bit. And they really have like everything from a 24 like hereditary and mid somar, like from Ari Ost, um, Ari Oster. Like those are more artsy, more thought driven, a lot, a little bit more slow paced.
You have to be able to endure the, like, okay, there's like some funky making at the beginning for like the first hour and a half and then the last 15 minutes, it's going to blow your mind. So as long as you're in it for that, like some of the stuff out there is, it's wild.
Dave: I, I really love the fact that, you know, there is this comeback to using effects and then still also using practical effects at the same time.
d in the eighties, nineties, [:CGI, we, we don't like it. People don't respond to it.
Dave: No, and I, to be honest, that was kind of one of the things that I didn't like about Smile, the fact that
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm.
Dave: me personally, there was so much CGI in that movie from the very beginning that it started. It, it, it just, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth in the sense where there is something about, particularly that genre when it has practical effects, even in cases where it's not even realistic, you know, like on the opposite spectrum, like even scream, it's not
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): yeah,
Dave: very realistic, but it, it doesn't, you know that that's the idea of it.
ty kind of feel a little bit [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): a good job at suspending disbelief for people, then we're in, we're like, yeah, we know it's a guy in a suit, but like, okay, like we're in it for the story. You know, like speaking of some of those older movies where the effects were just like basic junk. I mean, they were like,
Dave: Freddy, uh, nightmare of
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): um, I'm thinking even, I'm thinking even older than that.
Like I'm thinking of, um, the WASP Woman. It's like a sixties movie, and this is like a party city outfit she's wearing. She doesn't even look like a wasp. She looks just like, um.
Dave: been like repainted and retaped.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Run over. Yeah. I don't know. It's total party city, but, uh, the story is good. I get it. She's a was woman because she like had this experiment at her like, beauty company and the story is good, so it doesn't matter.
makers realize you can do a [:Dave: I, I, you know, I, I was talking about this before, this just constantly comes back to my mind is, you know?
Rocky Horror Picture Show,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm
Dave: first off, like that movie had a really small ass budget,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): mm.
Dave: was made probably in the worst time to make a movie like that, you know, like
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I bet a trans alien. Yeah.
o he literally took his play [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And shot it. Yeah.
Dave: So that's why Rocky Horror Picture Show is the way that it is, and it's, I've watched it by myself. I don't recommend it. not the greatest experience. It's kind of
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): No, you have to have somebody beside you to say, did that, I don't remember this part. That was that always in here because that was really weird. Why is that happening?
Dave: Especially,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): At least that's my experience. Like it it here we had like I know you guys have MTV or you had MTV, I don't know if MTV still exists, but in Canada we had much music.
So it was like a Canadian counterpart and much music would play Rocky Horror Picture show every Halloween. So my memory of it is we would go trick or treating I trick-or-treating until I was 18. So we'd go trick or treating and then we would always come back to my house, sort our candy trade, the things that we don't like and watch Rocky Horror.
s part. What is this? What's [:'cause it's a weird movie, but it's so wonderful. But yeah, I wouldn't say wa watch it alone. I would be very lost.
Dave: there are. It's interesting because there's a lot of films that are like this and it's, I think something also, especially for yourself, and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I know you do podcasts and you like to do, you know, a deeper dive and do that analysis and kind of take it a step forward.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
sponsible for the background [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): mm.
Dave: the, you know, the, the outside, um, I don't know why I can't think right now. Uh, you know, the, the non-speaking, um, people that are on the, the, that in the film, you know, sometimes you'll get those production designer,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): The extras.
Dave: Thank you. You know, you'll get the people that do the
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Hmm.
Dave: designs and stuff, and they'll throw in their own little things in there because keep in mind like just going through a riff. They're just going through the motion.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): and they're creators too, right? They're creators with a brief, basically. So the director's trusting them to also give them a direction, okay, run with this. I hired you based on your skills. Now you take it,
Dave: it.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And then, yeah, I get, I get final say. But you know, that's why you have those people.
They're, they're there to bring their genius to it as well.
Dave: I think that's what really
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I think that's
Dave: films is that ability, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah,
Dave: it over and over again. And you're like, huh, I never,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): and sometimes you have to because you don't get it on the first try.
Dave: one thing talking about Rocky Horror Picture Show, I've never noticed this too, but the extras, the ones that are on the top when he's going to the Rocky, you know, when, uh, to reveal Rocky, they're all wearing different geometric patterns.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh, boy.
Dave: So if you look at their outfits, they're all
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Another Easter egg.
Dave: They're representing
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Okay.
Dave: So I'm just, that's what I'm saying, that like there's so many films like this too. Like another great example of this is also like on the other opposite spectrum, was like even the Truman Show where you watch that
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Hmm.
and you start to notice this [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: chart starts to change. He starts becoming more depressed. He starts becoming more paranoid and you don't realize this until you watch it over again.
You're like, he's not the same guy he was an hour ago. He went from like cheery and happy to like, who the hell are you? yourself.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): It's kind of a horror movie when you think about it.
Dave: Breaking down
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: you know, like you could see their mental break from the beginning all the way to the end.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Can you imagine that movie with anybody else? I mean, like Jim Carrey loves what he does, like acting is his thing, and he loves, I think, I think he loves that storyline, right? Like, I think that storyline speaks to him knowing like as an actor, what he believes, right? As far as like the media and what's real, what's not real,
Dave: was, and
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): you know?
Dave: in the nineties. you know?
that
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: before [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: you think of it as just an idea. But if we really tap into that idea, do live in that world where we're constantly bombarded by advertisements. We're constantly giving subliminal messages in some shape or form or fashion, and.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm.
Dave: We are in the dome in some form or another, and
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): We are him.
Dave: damn,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yep.
Dave: freak,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I know,
Dave: out of a lot of people. Right? That's alright.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): but I mean, that's part of why we have stories, right? Like that's why we have stories in movies is because we, I mean, who else is gonna explain those things? If you just told somebody like, it's all, it's all a lie. This is all fake. Like, you sound like a crazy conspiracy theor theorist, right? Like,
Dave: tinfoil
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): yeah. But you watch a movie like that, maybe you get it.
it through like a little bit [:It hits people too hard. And metaphor and story speak to people.
Dave: tale, by the way, just saying like, book compared to the TV series not do it justice. the book was just,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I mean, I don't think so either, but.
Dave: oh my God. I'm just telling like, if you just wanted like, just go out there And read hand hands made tale. Like I went through three chapters. I, I couldn't, I, I just, I couldn't stomach it anymore. It's so graphic even though it's just words.
er I had to read it again in [:Dave: It.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): and then when you hear what the things that are happening now, like that woman in, I forget what state she's in, Georgia.
Georgia, one of the Carolinas or something, who's like still hooked up to life support because she has a baby insider, even though it's not a viable feed is like OMG. What?
Dave: It, it's tapping,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: tapping into the parts of our brain that we don't ever wanna think about. You know, the, the ideas and possibilities of realities that if they have existed, you know, great example
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well that's okay. We'll just ban it. It's a band book, so it's fine. We don't have to think about it.
ay, I had a hard time getting:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh,
Dave: I paid [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I know
Dave: 48 US dollars.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): for a, is it a paperback too?
Dave: a hard copy.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): What? Okay.
Dave: But they banned it, because the book was banned. So it has
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Do you get firewalled when you search online for like a PDF? Oh boy.
en on chat, GBT talking about:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh boy.
Dave: or the thing about Orwellian thinking is this, he wasn't wrong. He was a century off in the type of mindset of like his ideas. But I mean, the
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: eye looking through screens, you know, like this computer.
who doesn't like anybody who [:Dave: how they use the analogy of where pigs are very smart creatures how, even
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Mm-hmm. And that education is key.
Dave: there you go. And they,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I love the poorly ed, uneducated or poorly educated. Right. That quote he said, he,
Dave: our US government went ahead and made an animal farm cartoon and then decided to use it as political propaganda, which was genius for communism.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): oh my God,
Dave: Um, I want
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): what a world we live in to make stories. Huh.
e can these wonderful people [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Holy moly. Um, well probably the, the best place I'll go to the podcast 'cause I talk about everything I do there. So that's spooky scholars.com and you'll see how you can get into the podcast. You can see how you can join us in the community. If you have horror movies that you don't wanna watch alone and you need to talk to other people about them, all of that is there.
Yeah, you go to, you can get into our, our Patreon group there. We meet, um, a few different times a month. We have a book club, so we read only spooky books together. We have a band book club. So we read all of those books that you need to learn things from. And then we have our, um, our general meeting is every last Wednesday.
So we meet and just talk about all of the topics from the podcast or whatever movies are out that we wanna talk about and get off our chest. But we really talk about and focus on things like that we learn from podcasts like we've been talking about, like, you know, once I watch this horror movie, what am I supposed to learn from this?
ed to be? Um, thinking about [:Well, you know, that's why metaphor story is so important. 'cause it makes us think more deeply. So we talk about those issues together.
Dave: And I, I think, uh, a
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: point to bring out is just because you got Jack Nicholson's son can't fix smile too. But anyway, I'm, I'm sorry. Like, I just No, like, I think he's very talented. No, you can't, you can't, you can't fix something that's already broken with Jack Nicholson's son, which by the way, he eerily looks like his father, which is kind of freaky. I don't know, maybe Jack Nicholson is actually doing some science experiments in his basement.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): It's called genetics. Dude,
Dave: Lemme, lemme
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): that's supposed to happen. That's not a conspiracy. That's
Dave: Jack Nicholson. He's [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Genetics are real. Genetics are real.
Dave: Screw science.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): So when is your, your big move happening? When do we watch for the adventure?
Dave: December. I don't know where my,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh wow.
Dave: recordings, it's amazing. This recording studio has changed a lot in the past couple of years. It's gone from me being into a little cubicle, know, to a basement to a little square in a living room, and then, uh, to being a gay man back in the closet.
So
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Oh.
Dave: it's, it's a little closet. I got, I got a lot of space in here.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's all you need. I mean, I, I, in my, the first few episodes I experimented within my closet 'cause they're like, go in your closet. There's lots of, you know, good sound in there. And it wasn't that great.
Dave: good in here. You know, you get a nice you know, you get a nice tone.
y you'll, you'll get that in [:Dave: You know, and again, I, I think something for all of us is, if, even if, you know, you wanna be the most successful podcast or most successful creator in the world, and they're like, that's your dream and you wanna live in Beverly Hills, I think for me, the best way is to try to find something I'm passionate and get that as my financial stability and use this as just as an outlet, as to be able to just connect, create be able to share, you know, see different perspectives, learn new ideas.
I mean. Hell, I think we, We learn a lot of perspectives today, especially how movies are being made. We need phone numbers, okay. After every movie, giant ass phone
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): We need phone numbers.
Dave: One 800. I don't
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: Nope. Don't gimme podcast links. I need phone numbers.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): That's a million dollar idea. I think.
Dave: We should do it. should make it happen.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I [:Dave: I think that one thing we've learned in the past couple of years is that we crave more than ever is just interaction. You know, being able to
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yeah.
Dave: people is, so,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And prove that they're not bots. Like I think
Dave: human?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): malls are coming back because people wanna see you in person.
Dave: Okay. I haven't been replaced yet.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Yes.
Dave: pH I do get replaced, I've,
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well, how would you, how would you really know?
Dave: it's true. You don't know?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): And what is human? I mean, is it really
Dave: be the aliens.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): not programmed?
Dave: could be the aliens, you know?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): We're getting off track. Okay.
Dave: Um, well, what I'm gonna do, by the
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Well what I'm gonna do
Dave: anyway that I put out. I'll put a link to your Patreon so people can, uh, go
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): great,
Dave: and be able to find you over there.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): or you can always link my substack too.
Dave: I could do that [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): could share each other's substack. So my substack is horror helpline. Um, I talk about political headlines from the week and what horror movies, um, kind of match with them.
Dave: that is, that is utterly genius. I don't, it's, it's like, oh my God. How many ways can we slice reality, bam, horror film right at you?
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): So my last one we, you know, we were talking about when Trump was called the Taco. So I said, well, when it's not that kind of Taco Tuesday, what horror movie should you watch? So I talked about a, a lot of different characters that are famous for chickening out in different scenarios in horror movies. So
Dave: Oh boy.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): yeah, just bringing it all together.
Dave: Well, me tell you people, you got a lot of things to experience and if you want to get into the horror sector, you got somebody to
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I'll hold your hand. I'll hold your slimy hand.
ave: listen. I, I gotta say, [:Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I gotta say, honestly,
Dave: so much for coming on
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): you.
Dave: the time
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): thanks for having me.
Dave: going
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Thanks.
Dave: getting through the nitty
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): It's been a fun conversation. Yeah, yeah, it was a fun hang. I can't wait till you're a little closer too. That would be fun. You should do it again once you're in Colorado. Let me see a bit different backdrop.
That sounds good.
Dave: Different experience. My elevation levels might make me a little high. Yeah.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Ooh.
Dave: We will see.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): I think that's a good experiment. I'm in.
Dave: down. Totally down. Well, anyway, you so much. Uh, to anybody out there that wanna check out more of the pod, you could find us at Lost in the Groove Pod everywhere and anywhere you could find podcasts.
So with that, motherfuckers, we'll catch you on the next one. Peace out. Okay. There we go.
Ashe (like 'Geisha'): Bye.
