Episode 236
#236 - Interview with therapist Dr. Lincoln Stoller
In this deeply layered conversation, quantum physicist and clinical counselor Dr. Lincoln Stoller. joins me to explore the terrain between science, and spirit. From neural training, and anxiety to the unseen forces that shape identity. Lincoln opens up about parenting, failure, and the work of becoming who you are. It's a raw, unscripted look into the psychology of creativity, and what it takes to truly grow.
Where to Find the Guest?
🌐 Website: https://www.mindstrengthbalance.com/
And of course, you can find all the links for L.I.T.G, and where to listen at:
Transcript
00:01.36
Lincoln Stoller
And for some people there isn't, but okay.
00:04.04
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
00:04.13
Lincoln Stoller
But how does that connect to neural training? I mean, it seems like you were about to say that.
00:08.76
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No, I was just like, i like I told you before, like i I, I'm not very familiar with the type of work that you do. And I'm kind of curious and seeing of how that stuff works and how it operates. Cause I know that a lot of the times when you're dealing with these things, it's very complex and you need to sometimes have the right guidance and being able to understand it. That's what I was getting at.
00:30.76
Lincoln Stoller
So where are you coming from? That is to say, what do you feel you do know and can leverage off of? Or if not you, other people, you know, who you want me to talk to.
00:39.20
Lost in the Groove Podcast
So i can I can talk from artist's point of perspective, if that makes any sense. Meaning that as somebody that is an artist and is somebody that has spoken to many artists um with this podcast and also in person, you for me, i tend to see a pattern.
01:00.48
Lost in the Groove Podcast
A lot of the times you run into either very traumatized individuals that find art as a form of therapy and a way of being able to connect with others. um I found people that have actually been able to create their own families, like within the artist community with other artists and being able to collaborate um because of whatever kind of hardships or things that they've dealt with. that um i i find it I find it interesting because I don't want to like put everybody into one group.
01:36.99
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But there is, it seems to be this pattern that exists particularly in my my personal experience when it comes to artists.
01:48.37
Lost in the Groove Podcast
So, yeah.
01:50.86
Lincoln Stoller
Oh, okay.
01:53.96
Lincoln Stoller
um Well, there are lots of ways to go at this. I just want to mention that I was just writing about creativity.
02:04.38
Lincoln Stoller
I wasn't about to talk about neural training, but I was saying, and I'll say again here, that a lot of us
02:18.20
Lincoln Stoller
Well, so creativity is something out of the normal. That's how it's seen. And it's often perceived that way.
02:24.28
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
02:27.30
Lincoln Stoller
And that it usually has to have some normality to be in a context with. So if you're a creative painter, the context is painting.
02:38.79
Lincoln Stoller
you're creative musician, the context is music. And some people push that, right? Because, ah you know, there's been like abstract painting for which painters who are classically trained didn't understand.
02:51.86
Lincoln Stoller
And there was like punk rock where anybody who could play music didn't understand. And they were trying to be creative outside the bounds of what people understood. But normally when we're creative, we're creative in the context that other people can understand.
03:06.79
Lincoln Stoller
Otherwise we're called crazy, you know, and people don't know what to make of us.
03:08.84
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
03:11.24
Lincoln Stoller
So normally when we creative, It's either for two purposes, either to express ourselves to other people or to enlighten ourselves.
03:21.10
Lincoln Stoller
And so we know that there's got to be some pivot, some hinge point, some sanity if we're going to relate to other people and usually even if we're going to relate to ourselves.
03:38.94
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
03:38.92
Lincoln Stoller
So a lot of it depends on how good a communicator you are. So if you're a really good musician, you can be creative and people will appreciate you.
03:50.07
Lincoln Stoller
But if you're a shitty musician, then being creative may be seen as just poor form or bad music and you won't be appreciated.
03:58.52
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
04:00.84
Lincoln Stoller
So it takes a certain skill of communicating.
04:03.25
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It does. i what What's interesting, though, is even when you deal with those musicians, like you said, you do. I've seen this. There tends to be those musicians that can create incredible music, be able to perform.
04:19.39
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um i mean, like perform as if like they're professionals and really capture that audience, like you can feel the emotions within the room.
04:30.61
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But yet once they put that instrument down and you sit down and have a conversation with them, they can either be people that are extremely shy, they don't know how to properly communicate with other people, or they tend to kind of be more of a loner.
04:46.29
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, they kind of stay in their own, they stay in their own lane, they kind of create in their own space. So there is that kind of almost opposite parallel where, If they have the instrument and the stage, they can be almost like an extrovert.
05:01.92
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But the second they come off the stage, they automatically shell back into being an introvert. Does that make sense?
05:10.77
Lincoln Stoller
ah Maybe let me take it into a different direction. Not entirely.
05:13.70
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
05:15.85
Lincoln Stoller
What I wanted to say is that we learn to self-censor not just what we say, but what we think. And we do that because we realize that when you start to think a thought, it tends to squeak out your mouth.
05:28.66
Lincoln Stoller
And if not out your mouth, then out some other medium, like your body language or your attitude or your eyes so that we self-censor what we think. So if you, but so if you're being creative personally in the privacy of your own studio, you can do all kinds of stuff and nobody, you don't care because no one's listening and you don't misunderstand yourself because you know, you know what you're trying to do or you're looking for something.
05:59.72
Lincoln Stoller
Um, But still, we self-censor ourselves. It becomes a habit. So some people are, I mean, this is sort of getting to the idea that there are people who are introverts.
06:11.07
Lincoln Stoller
I think the introvert is somebody who's very cautious about what they say and think.
06:16.70
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
06:17.41
Lincoln Stoller
And an extrovert is kind of exuberant and carefree. And the extrovert is probably somebody who's better at communicating because they don't feel at so much of a risk.
06:28.87
Lincoln Stoller
Now, I mean, I'm talking about talking. I'm not... You know, musically, music depends on some skill. So really skilled people can be, they just have more latitude, you know.
06:35.13
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
06:42.71
Lincoln Stoller
So what I was thinking of is that if you want to be creative, you have to start, or you have to stop self-censoring your thoughts.
06:54.87
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, this is not in a new piece of advice. It's like, you know,
06:58.70
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No. Yeah.
07:01.56
Lincoln Stoller
Be exuberant, but of course you have to be careful because if your audience doesn't appreciate you, and that could be a, you know, a professional audience or a social audience or your family audience, ah you know, like if you get angry, you might be justified, but me be completely ineffective either in any of those contexts.
07:24.72
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
07:25.04
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, it's it's funny. We're not allowed to be angry socially. That's like considered unless you're Adolf Hitler, and in which case you can really.
07:31.28
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Taboo. Yeah. yeah
07:34.55
Lincoln Stoller
i mean, that guy was a master of social hypnotism. But, you know, you're supposed to temper your anger and your vitriol, and you're supposed to be inviting and comforting to most people, musically, socially, verbally.
07:54.79
Lincoln Stoller
But if you're a person who's stressed and strained and traumatized by something,
08:02.82
Lincoln Stoller
um it gets very hard to express yourself fully. So, you know, they say like, you listen to Beethoven, it was like really smashing on the piano.
08:14.96
Lincoln Stoller
And I guess that was a lot of aggression. But it was presented in a way that was musically appreciated, at least eventually it was.
08:23.45
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, 100 percent. i I think also, though, to to point out in regards to trauma, I can speak for myself, where even though I've had to deal with different forms of trauma, whether it be from childhood or just experiences throughout my life, I've used that as a tool for my art.
08:45.24
Lost in the Groove Podcast
So that when I do create, I use that as a way of being able to either able to make my lyrics when I'm writing music or to be able to figure out different ways of what I want to draw.
08:57.50
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And be honest, like I learned this from a therapist because the therapist told me you can either hold on to it and allow that to bottle feed you and just keep on bloating until you it's long no longer sustainable.
09:12.41
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Or... you can actually use it as a very beneficial tool. um For me, it has worked. i You know, the thing is, you can't always take what works for you for others, because I feel every single person works differently.
09:28.93
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But I find that interesting in how you can take something like that and make something creative out of it.
09:39.13
Lincoln Stoller
Well, that's very general. Some people can, some people can't.
09:42.39
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right.
09:42.39
Lincoln Stoller
Depends on the context. um
09:47.72
Lincoln Stoller
And ah it kind of depends on your frequency. ah So I know one jazz musician, well, who was very, I don't know, it seemed like he heard the world differently than other people heard it.
10:06.79
Lincoln Stoller
And i I remember I said to him at one point, Roswell, Roswell, i'm trying to I'm trying to speak to you, Roswell. Can you hear me? And he said to me, oh people are always trying to speak to me. I never hear any of them kind of thing.
10:19.65
Lincoln Stoller
It's like he was always a different plane. And I do think he had, I do know he had a certain amount of aggression and anger, but he never he never fed it to his audience.
10:31.91
Lincoln Stoller
What he fed his audience was a kind of digested version of it, musically digested. And, you know, he was very had a very light touch, even though emotionally he might have been a different person.
10:48.19
Lincoln Stoller
So he was unusual.
10:50.24
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Thank
10:50.61
Lincoln Stoller
And um in therapy, when I deal with people, I'm mostly trying to just get get them out of their shell, you know, just to let them shed their skin and see who's in there.
11:02.88
Lincoln Stoller
Because as a therapist, I don't have to be judgmental. I mean, to a point, I mean, I'll put up with a lot of rancor and anger and bullshit.
11:16.05
Lincoln Stoller
But, you know, the happily, I charge for my time so I can always say, is it worth what you're doing right now?
11:23.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
11:24.80
Lincoln Stoller
You know, are you just venting? You should go outside and take a walk if you want to just scream at the world. Don't scream at me because it costs you money. So, you know, I have that as a kind of ace up my sleeve.
11:36.62
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
11:37.06
Lincoln Stoller
You're charging me so you can't abuse me as much as you might other people who are giving their time for free.
11:44.17
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
11:44.67
Lincoln Stoller
That's important. And i i use that I use that card a lot, you know, to say, you know, let's get back on track here.
11:45.90
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It is.
11:51.82
Lincoln Stoller
Because people love to just talk and meander around. And it's important, but not everything's equally important. So trying to focus. And I have the idea that that somewhere where you were going, it's like, what is the important part to get out?
12:08.02
Lincoln Stoller
because it's not enough to just express yourself.
12:11.05
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right. Yeah.
12:12.23
Lincoln Stoller
You have to use some discretion about, you know, are you just gonna sort of like fingerprint with with with shit? Or are you gonna try to create something that has a melody?
12:23.66
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
12:23.83
Lincoln Stoller
but Both have interesting options, but the audience isn't gonna appreciate one as opposed to the other. So what are you gonna do?
12:34.49
Lincoln Stoller
And you know, Um, do you have a goal? Do you have a need? Do you have an opportunity? Uh, you can ask those questions to some people and get answers and direction, but then other people need to just, you know, freak out sometimes.
12:51.34
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, I guess everybody needs to freak out sometimes, or at least it's a good thing because otherwise, like you say, you end up bottled up and it's like a pressure cooker.
12:53.83
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
12:56.53
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
13:00.71
Lincoln Stoller
Eventually it's going to get out.
13:02.69
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
13:03.11
Lincoln Stoller
So making
13:05.93
Lincoln Stoller
I don't want to say friends, but making paths, opportunities. ah And, you know, we we have to take a shit one or two times a day, whether we like it or not.
13:18.26
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's part of the human cycle.
13:18.38
Lincoln Stoller
Whether it's socially appropriate, it's part of the, right?
13:20.23
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
13:21.71
Lincoln Stoller
So there is, there's stuff that needs to be discarded at an appropriate place and time, which you have to distinguish from
13:30.47
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
13:33.59
Lincoln Stoller
your music. Oh, it's interesting. I was just looking at an old movie called stranger than paradise, which uses screaming Jay Hawkins. I, you know, i put a spell on you or whatever it was. And, you know, it's such a wonderful piece because he shouts and screams in that music, but he does it in a way that's so appropriate.
13:54.17
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, this is sort of like the birth of rock and roll, but, um,
13:58.00
Lost in the Groove Podcast
d called Hot Chocolate in the:14:09.12
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And their lead singer made a song called Emma, which was, short synopsis would be a story about a brother and sister. They grew up, the sister wanted to be famous, brother tried helping her, but she just couldn't handle the world and eventually she committed suicide.
14:27.80
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But in the way he sings the song, you can almost feel the pain because there's a point where he starts screaming Emma on the top of his lungs. So you're almost getting engulfed with that feeling like, oh my God, like what happened?
14:45.42
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um It's not immediate gratification. That is, I feel, very in-depth within tune of like, you're not just making a story, you're not just making lyrics. This is a story.
14:57.65
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's really deep story that you're portraying.
15:06.62
Lincoln Stoller
Well, so what do you want to make of that? the Because you're you're emphasizing that there was a communication that you could get it as a listener.
15:16.71
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
15:17.93
Lincoln Stoller
But I think that's really depends on lot of skill and timing and subtlety, because you could have told that story and it would have fallen flat or, you know, if it if it was out of tune or off key, it it would have been you would have not gone there.
15:22.83
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, it does.
15:31.39
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
15:37.05
Lincoln Stoller
So, I mean, I'm coming back to the idea of discernment, discretion, but I don't want to get away from the idea of
15:49.66
Lincoln Stoller
this thing of self-censorship, creativity. I mean, there's got to be an element of courage here. You've got to be willing.
15:55.75
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
15:58.96
Lincoln Stoller
i mean, so the so the guy who sang Emma, it wasn't his first try. He probably... worked at it for a while and maybe longer than most people work on most things because it was deep and powerful and poignant and and and not and indirect.
16:21.78
Lincoln Stoller
And so, you know, you do get great musicians who seem to just have this. I remember I keep thinking about Keith Jarrett, who.
16:28.63
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
16:29.38
Lincoln Stoller
You could never figure out how he could do that, you know, how he could just seem to disappear and still produce music at the same time.
16:29.44
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh, that's a great example. Yeah.
16:37.71
Lincoln Stoller
for hours on end. I don't like he had something in his brain that was unusual. But ah yeah, there are other people like that.
16:43.60
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like a chameleon.
16:45.25
Lincoln Stoller
I don't, you know, you wonder, I mean, I play keyboard sometimes too.
16:46.88
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Crazy.
16:50.33
Lincoln Stoller
And I wonder, God, the only way you could play like Keith Jarrett was to be unconscious. You couldn't, i mean it'd be like trying to ride a bicycle while you're thinking about everything going on. yeah It has to be in your body.
17:04.11
Lincoln Stoller
Anyway, what I'm saying is you have to give yourself the opportunity to express yourself that way. And i I get back to courage. It's don't expect to to succeed.
17:19.05
Lincoln Stoller
In fact, most good ideas don't come out right the first time. And you're lucky if they ever come out right. But the people who make them come out right usually are both courageous and diligent and well, they're skilled as well. A lot of things.
17:34.48
Lincoln Stoller
It doesn't happen immediately.
17:34.61
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's very, no and it's very, like like you said, but lot of the, but you know, a great analogy would be like the story of The Wizard of Oz, where you have the wizard is behind the green curtain. And in reality, it's just a master playing with a machine, you know.
17:55.82
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's basically a very complex structure that's but's happening where it's a lot of sometimes a lot of years, a lot of work, a lot of trial and error, a lot of failure to get to those points and to be able to make those things.
18:10.00
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But we me personally, I will say this, I don't always see that. Sometimes I forget that you don't just start from the bottom and then immediately go to the top. There's a lot of layers in between those to get there.
18:28.41
Lincoln Stoller
And as a therapist, those layers often are painful.
18:35.11
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
18:35.51
Lincoln Stoller
But I say that with some caution because the people who come to me are in some distress and maybe there are people who don't have distress and they pass through those layers more successfully and they don't come to me.
18:47.99
Lincoln Stoller
But, you know, it's, it's sort of my, both my own personal, of course, I have to relate to people. So I, I tend to be the kind of person who understands
18:55.30
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
18:59.26
Lincoln Stoller
progress through distress, which I'm not sure that's entirely healthily, but you know, these are the people that come to me and these are the people I help. And, and I questioned it in myself too. Like, am I, am I putting too much stress in myself?
19:13.13
Lincoln Stoller
And that's a real problem because as a therapist, you do get sucked into your client's worldview. And part of what I'm paid for is not to get sucked into their worldview. So, but I can't not be there.
19:24.00
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's hard though.
19:25.41
Lincoln Stoller
You know, I have to be there.
19:26.00
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
19:26.83
Lincoln Stoller
have to be, what's the word? resilient. I have to be able to go there and come back. It's like, ah you know, it's like the Caron is the character who led people across the river Styx as they were dying to go to the land of the underworld.
19:44.76
Lincoln Stoller
And you've got to be able to take people across the the chasm without getting lost yourself. It's so my role is kind of the role of a guide.
19:53.28
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
19:56.55
Lincoln Stoller
Definitely not a teacher because I'm not going to tell you what you need because in what you need is probably what you don't know. And I don't know it either. And um ah I'll help facilitate your enlightenment, but I'm not, you know, the Messiah in any shape or form.
20:13.53
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
20:14.33
Lincoln Stoller
And I don't want to be, you know, my my role is to become obsolete as quickly as possible, unnecessary.
20:19.50
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, you know, it's interesting because i was thinking about this and a lot of the times like. When you when you're a therapist and you sit down with a client. You're hearing their view and their take on their scenario.
20:36.76
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And based on that, you have to be able to like, um maybe I'm wrong, but being able to figure out the other side of what could possibly be happening. and And like you said, like, you know, you think like, oh you shouldn't get sucked in, but hello, you're putting a lot of work into something that you're not supposed to get sucked into.
20:46.51
Lincoln Stoller
Oh, yeah.
20:58.55
Lost in the Groove Podcast
count Sounds a little counter counterproductive.
21:00.98
Lincoln Stoller
Absolutely.
21:01.95
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
21:02.86
Lincoln Stoller
When I listen to them, I have to empathize and understand. And very importantly, i have to disbelieve. So I know your story is bullshit. And in the sense you do, too, because otherwise you wouldn't be coming to me for another story.
21:16.72
Lincoln Stoller
But you are going to hang on to certain things, probably the wrong things because they're what's important to you and what you build your personality on. And my role is to sort of, you know, ah leverage you out of the things to which you're attached so that you can see the possibility of something else.
21:37.46
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, a good example is heartbreak. How do you help somebody who's brokenhearted? What do you do? You tell them, oh, your partner was just a fucking asshole. yeah That's not going to help.
21:47.37
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
21:48.33
Lincoln Stoller
No.
21:48.89
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Makes things worse, actually.
21:50.64
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah. It's like, it's a very dicey situation. but Grief is similar, but a little different because nobody's at fault.
22:01.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
22:01.63
Lincoln Stoller
Um, but it's still something you've got to let go of. And, uh, okay. So there's grief, there's heartbreak. Um, there's yeah.
22:12.87
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Hardship.
22:14.67
Lincoln Stoller
Trouble trauma. I mean, all of these things involve an attachment to something that's heartbreaking or grief filled. And I have to understand it, but see beyond it.
22:29.79
Lincoln Stoller
And so do you. So ah or talk about death. Death is great. i mean, your own death, your own mortality. That's a tough one. But most people don't think about it because what are you going to do about it?
22:39.74
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No, no. And you know, it and it does.
22:41.95
Lincoln Stoller
But it'll come. Time will come.
22:45.09
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And, you know, it's crazy. Like, I have dealt with my dad passed away five years ago. And a lot of the times you don't think about death. And one thing I've realized since dealing with that grief, I think about it all the time.
22:58.75
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah. I like to tell people I have a much better relationship to my parents now that they're dead than they ever did in their lifetime. Because now I don't have to listen to their bullshit. And now I can like i can imagine the higher level that they could never get to.
23:08.95
Lost in the Groove Podcast
me
23:13.74
Lincoln Stoller
I don't have to fight them because they never were going to go there anyhow. For what reasons I never fully understood, but maybe I will someday.
23:18.68
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
23:21.72
Lincoln Stoller
Um, so, but take could get back well to creativity.
23:22.46
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
23:27.65
Lincoln Stoller
I think this is all part of the same package. How do you allow your mind to go places which aren't, uh, entirely known, maybe not entirely safe and generally socially unrewarded or unacceptable.
23:45.94
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, music is great because yeah how do you get a new idea by doodling with things that don't seem to fit? Do they sound good? No, not at first. and you You have to find something in the chaos.
23:59.92
Lincoln Stoller
And that's very much like therapy. You have to find something in the chaos, which means you have to let the chaos or at least dip your toe into the chaos. And that's where courage comes in.
24:13.51
Lincoln Stoller
because chaos is dark and it doesn't feel good. And it feels threatening depending on how secure you are.
24:22.40
Lincoln Stoller
And it may be easier to engage in chaos, failure, trauma, than all the other bad stuff. If you've got somebody supportive or ah supportive, that's another difficult word because I don't try to be supportive because supportive of what that's easy to manipulate supportive of my
24:41.88
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Could become a handicap or even a crutch.
24:44.64
Lincoln Stoller
I don't want to be that.
24:44.94
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, right.
24:46.39
Lincoln Stoller
So, and I don't want to tell you you're a nice guy. I'm your friend and everything you think is fine because that's not going to help anything.
24:54.45
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
24:54.58
Lincoln Stoller
Uh, but then to be reasonable, everyone's got their limits. And if I were to tell you you're completely full of shit, you're worthless sack of garbage and nothing you think is of any value.
25:07.53
Lincoln Stoller
Oh, that wouldn't help either. So there's got to be a mix. you know, I've got to be sort of encouraging, but I've got to say, well, you know, here's another idea. Or maybe you're looking at it yeah in an unproductive way.
25:23.84
Lincoln Stoller
but That's that's an easy reframe. So, you know, somebody ah bothers you and I say, well, maybe you don't understand that other person. but Oh, you know, I've got clients who always get in fights with people and I say, well, maybe you instead of feeling that other person as a threat to you, maybe you should ask them what their problem is or how can you help them?
25:44.97
Lincoln Stoller
You know, asking someone what their problem is, is kind of aggression because you're saying they've got a problem.
25:50.56
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And they don't want to want to admit that they have a problem.
25:51.03
Lincoln Stoller
And I don't want to hear that.
25:52.87
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
25:53.56
Lincoln Stoller
No, I think you're the problem.
25:55.07
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right.
25:55.12
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know, you have to say, how can I help you, you know, to two diffuse So like, that's a reframe and you'd think that might be obvious, but in the heat of the moment, it's not so obvious.
26:07.28
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's not. No.
26:09.95
Lincoln Stoller
and especially if you like dealing with somebody who's really, you feel has betrayed you or something.
26:12.39
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And your your emotions are so in heightened in those scenarios. like you you're You're in survival mode. You're 100% in survival mode.
26:20.15
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah.
26:21.21
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You are ready to attack like a panther.
26:25.14
Lincoln Stoller
Or flee.
26:26.34
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Horrifully.
26:26.96
Lincoln Stoller
Have not, you know, like, slam the door and disappear, which is but another thing.
26:35.37
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean, that could also lead to sometimes extreme violence, you know, and sometimes, yeah.
26:35.40
Lincoln Stoller
So
26:42.87
Lincoln Stoller
well, but here, yes, but you know, anger is okay. Violence is not.
26:47.23
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right.
26:47.46
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, you have to be able to express yourself and contain the situation to allow for progress. You know, you know, if you excel, if you accelerate it,
26:57.71
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like a balance.
26:59.20
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah, I mean, it's like they say, yeah you should never bring a knife to a gunfight.
27:00.41
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
27:04.26
Lincoln Stoller
You know, it if you're.
27:05.13
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, okay.
27:08.04
Lincoln Stoller
There's a lot, you know, be reasonable about this.
27:12.11
Lost in the Groove Podcast
ah Yeah, it's true. God, that idiot that brings a knife to a gun gunsh shoot. Damn, man.
27:19.40
Lincoln Stoller
Well, that's you know, that's that's what happens when people. You know, accelerate the aggression, nobody's really paying attention to what the other person is capable of doing.
27:28.81
Lost in the Groove Podcast
no
27:29.81
Lincoln Stoller
And before you know, that's when you get violent. And I got violent once too. I hit my wife. I slapped my wife. The only thing I ever did because she was like hysterical.
27:41.18
Lincoln Stoller
That actually worked. But you know, that's, that's not a knife or a gun. And I think it was a, I mean, I'm, I'm ashamed that I did it, but on the other hand, I don't know what else I would have done except shut down.
27:57.62
Lincoln Stoller
Anyway, it worked. So, I mean, it's it's possible, but I wouldn't advise it. Anger is hard enough to deal with. Violence is very much.
28:10.23
Lincoln Stoller
I mean, you get people who like to fight, right? I mean, there's Fight Club is great movie, right? All about physicalizing this the trauma.
28:14.19
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm. People fighting. Yeah.
28:19.97
Lincoln Stoller
But of course, you know, I don't want to ruin the movie, but it has a very strange twist at the end. which undoes the whole premise.
28:31.06
Lost in the Groove Podcast
no No, but you know what's interesting? um i I have friends that are veterans, and some of them have found like being able to go into the gym and doing boxing or jujitsu or martial arts or something like that.
28:48.44
Lincoln Stoller
Right.
28:49.63
Lost in the Groove Podcast
gives them an outlet to get out that aggression that they feed because I mean, i remember him telling me he's like, imagine me coming from like chaos and just everything is moving in every direction to now I'm in normal life.
28:53.50
Lincoln Stoller
Mm-hmm.
29:05.77
Lost in the Groove Podcast
What am I supposed to do? You know, that that switch is sometimes really hard for people to get used to. You know, you can't just like we say that animals are territorial. Human beings are territorial, too.
29:19.06
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Once you get used to I feel like you get used to one territory, it's really hard to get used to another territory. Like it takes time.
29:31.06
Lincoln Stoller
Well, let's get back to therapy. I mean, take that back, reel that in to the audience's reality.
29:41.81
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
29:41.95
Lincoln Stoller
um
29:42.71
Lost in the Groove Podcast
okay
29:42.83
Lincoln Stoller
I want to say that anger, energy, even violence can be transmuted creatively. And it's if you do have those things, it's important to transmute them.
29:57.74
Lincoln Stoller
And it would be great if you can. So, you know, instead of cutting your ear off, uh, find something positive.
30:07.42
Lincoln Stoller
Uh, and, you know, we could talk about metaphor altered states, um, improve your, I mean, i think this is very important in terms of trauma.
30:20.71
Lincoln Stoller
You have to surround yourself as much as possible by positive energy.
30:25.30
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, very much so.
30:25.56
Lincoln Stoller
If you recognize that you're in a negative or toxic environment, you're going to have a very hard time recovering as long as you're still in that environment.
30:27.36
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
30:35.71
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
30:36.00
Lincoln Stoller
So one way or another, stop the violence.
30:36.85
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
30:41.35
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm. i I have found that along the way, I've lost a lot of people. You know, I've had friends that I've known for several years, and just like that, it became toxic, and I ended it.
30:57.70
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And when I think back, I'm not upset or angry. I kind of am happy because I got myself out of situations that if I would have continued, would have just added more negativity to my life that I didn't need.
31:12.18
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, it's not it's not about like eliminating everybody out of your life, but I feel sometimes there are people that like, that's it. i can't. Like your you're becoming too much and this is interfering with my life. And I don't feel that selfish.
31:27.87
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I feel like you have every right to feel that way.
31:28.46
Lincoln Stoller
but
31:30.76
Lincoln Stoller
Maybe you can think of it like a spice. There's a certain amount of spice that's appropriate and too much just ruins the dish.
31:37.18
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
31:37.44
Lincoln Stoller
It's not that the spice is bad. It's just that it's not appropriate anymore for you. So maybe the person that was bothering you needs to go off and bother someone else. And that's what they need to do until they get the right kind of pushback or, you know, breakthrough.
31:53.23
Lincoln Stoller
But for you, it may be enough is enough. Um, I need to, you know, I need to level up here or I need to, you know, take the off ramp. And it's not a personal thing.
32:04.97
Lincoln Stoller
I feel much the same way. I regret so many, what I thought were committed friends or committed situations that just drifted away.
32:15.16
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
32:17.04
Lincoln Stoller
And I thought, what a waste.
32:17.25
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
32:18.75
Lincoln Stoller
Like all my, ah all my old girlfriends, but but you see, this is me again. have a streak of commitment to people.
32:26.03
Lost in the Groove Podcast
m
32:26.06
Lincoln Stoller
And I'm thinking, well, what the, what where, what did they think they're going to start over again? You never start over again. You always carry on with what you got and move it forward. I remember I have a number of clients who, you know, are going through relationship difficulties and they break up and I say, oh, now that you've broken up, now you are really permanently attached because now you'll never forget your relationship. And it's too bad because you know, there are no,
32:54.39
Lincoln Stoller
burned bridges. Well, I mean, they're scorched bridges, but they're always there. You can't, I mean, unless you get like electroconvulsive therapy, you're not going to forget the most important episodes of your life.
33:08.16
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
33:08.74
Lincoln Stoller
And why should you? I mean, so you can do it over again.
33:11.38
Lost in the Groove Podcast
they had They had value at the time. Yeah, very much so.
33:16.90
Lincoln Stoller
So I try to get people in the mind frame too. It's like nothing is worthless, especially the the more intense it is. most likely the more worth more worth you can get out of it. And if it's going to be bad and you're going to need to eliminate it from your life, well, try not to try to, you know, try not to be the one who was guilty of shutting it down.
33:40.04
Lincoln Stoller
Try to make as many overtures and positive invitations and take as much blame or whatever it takes to keep the channel open.
33:51.15
Lincoln Stoller
because other people's stress and grief and heartbreak are the, you know, basically avenues to their enlightenment, you know, as contradictory as that may seem, but that's when you push through the whole log jam of trauma.
34:10.07
Lincoln Stoller
If you can push through that log jam of trauma, there's a, there is greener grass on the other side of that fence.
34:15.66
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
34:17.19
Lincoln Stoller
And so you don't want to, you know,
34:20.58
Lincoln Stoller
Abandoned people, even if they're toxic, if you can like stomach it as much as possible to see the good of people. Of course, there are people who maybe you're just, you know, injurious than those people you should just get away from.
34:36.22
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
34:36.57
Lincoln Stoller
Um, but you have to take as much responsibility as you can, because otherwise you've got this magnetic attraction to a negative person that you haven't recognized. Then they'll eventually, uh,
34:50.39
Lincoln Stoller
enter your orbit again.
34:53.06
Lost in the Groove Podcast
i I have a friend of mine that we've been friends for about eight years, and she's a single mom of three, and she had a very toxic relationship with her ex, and it's kind of affected her kids.
35:06.15
Lost in the Groove Podcast
In those eight years, we've taken breaks, and we've kind of rekindled over time. We've had different ways of how we communicate it. Either it was just only text or it was over the phone.
35:17.96
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um At the very beginning, we used to meet in person, And then it became long distance. The thing for me was, like you said, even when there was those ups and downs and those issues, I myself found that even within this negativity, this person meant something to me.
35:34.31
Lost in the Groove Podcast
So I try as much as I can to give to her as much as I can to give to her kids. And i don't regret that. I feel that it's something that...
35:46.35
Lost in the Groove Podcast
We kind of look past because you're right. Sometimes you're like, oh, this person's too toxic or they're this. But they are worth saving. There are those people that are worth saving and keeping in your life. You have to look past that and see the other positive things that they give you.
36:05.80
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah, well, it's, you know, I'm, I'm the personification of ambulance. So every time you tell me one thing, I'll think of the other.
36:16.92
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
36:18.25
Lincoln Stoller
And you know, there,
36:22.90
Lincoln Stoller
you have to ask yourself, are you really, mean, it's easy to say I'm helping. It's easy to be the hero, the savior.
36:31.44
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I'm not helping.
36:33.73
Lincoln Stoller
You have to also think. Are you respecting yourself enough? Are you stuck in the helper mode?
36:42.80
Lincoln Stoller
Um,
36:46.63
Lincoln Stoller
keep thinking of that's, that's Stephen.
36:46.88
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
36:49.19
Lincoln Stoller
Stephen King is a great author for the heart, the horror of, of, uh, normal life.
36:51.08
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh.
36:54.78
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Favorite is Pet Sematary. Oh,
36:56.78
Lincoln Stoller
Is it, I was thinking of, uh, that Kathy Bates movie where the author is, uh, I could,
37:01.49
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um oh I know what you're talking about. It's like one word. um
37:06.24
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah, right. You're right. And that's a movie I couldn't watch because I, I just couldn't watch it. Um,
37:11.98
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's hard. It's hard to swallow. It really is.
37:15.47
Lincoln Stoller
uh, that's just like pure Stephen King to me. It's just horror, the horror of normal people. Um, anyway, why, why should I mention that? It, the point is that you can, you can turn from being a helper to being a harmer very easily because your addiction to being the helper can feed the other person's addiction to being the victim.
37:41.14
Lincoln Stoller
And, and, uh, yeah, you do want to help and you don't want to give up, but there are some people I fear who need to be dropped from a high place where they'll break like Humpty Dumpty into better pieces of their own accord.
37:51.63
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
37:57.52
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like a hundred story building. There's plenty of them in Manhattan. Yeah.
38:02.00
Lincoln Stoller
you know, are you in Manhattan?
38:03.74
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No, i'm i'm in I'm in South Florida.
38:06.42
Lincoln Stoller
Oh, another Floridian, another cracker.
38:08.67
Lost in the Groove Podcast
i'm I'm not from Florida originally. I'm from um originally from New York.
38:13.00
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah, well, me too, actually. So, um yeah, that's.
38:15.31
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Nice. City or upstate?
38:19.97
Lincoln Stoller
Oh, just outside the city. I used to go into the city a lot.
38:22.67
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um I grew up Rockland County.
38:23.29
Lincoln Stoller
ah I still like the city.
38:27.54
Lincoln Stoller
I grew up in Westchester, but.
38:29.64
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. right. Neighbors. Across the pond. Literally.
38:35.61
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lived the Hudson Valley for 20 or 30 years. But, um, I mean, culture is very interesting. We could talk about that for a long time.
38:44.14
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
38:45.74
Lincoln Stoller
And I do think I will mention this. And I think it's important that you have to recognize your lineage because, you know, if you're Italian or if you're Swiss or if you're Japanese, Chinese, indigenous, there's a lot in you that you didn't ask for.
39:06.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
39:07.00
Lincoln Stoller
And it's not just in your culture, it's in your genes and your attitudes and all kinds of things.
39:10.61
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
39:14.59
Lincoln Stoller
And, and it's not obvious. What is obvious is probably not the most important stuff. Oh, race is another one, of course, race and religion. Um, I think you have to understand that stuff.
39:25.57
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Wonderful, ah know.
39:28.57
Lincoln Stoller
I have to try to understand it at least.
39:30.49
Lost in the Groove Podcast
he immigrated this country in:40:09.48
Lincoln Stoller
ah Yeah, it's you know, that's like, that's like looking through a frozen lake at the what's underneath. There's all kinds of stuff underneath. It's dark underneath dark, not in the bad sense, but in the obscure sense, it's obscure.
40:24.75
Lincoln Stoller
So yeah, I agree with you, but it goes on and on and on.
40:30.70
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
40:30.83
Lincoln Stoller
Turtles all the way down, you know.
40:33.07
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I wanted to touch on, like, regarding... Regarding that in that relationship, the thing that I realized, and i'm again, I'm quite young, and i think it's kind of a thing that you have to be able to learn and develop as time goes on, is creating boundaries within relationships. is that we're It doesn't mean that you're telling a person no, you're telling the person your limitations.
40:58.26
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And if there's an agreed agreement, you know that you can have proper communication with this person because I feel then you have that two-way direction that exists within that relationship.
41:13.02
Lincoln Stoller
Yes. And.
41:15.17
Lincoln Stoller
and
41:17.04
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And i feel that
41:22.78
Lost in the Groove Podcast
when we were talking about, for example, like heartbreak and of people breaking apart, it could be for a lot of different reasons. I've realized that over time, sometimes it's where you need a break.
41:37.83
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I've had relationships, like I said before, where I've had breaks for like a year or maybe two years until we kind of rekindle things and kind of reconnected. and I have found that those relationships, the second round is stronger than it was the first.
41:58.83
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah.
42:01.75
Lincoln Stoller
Um,
42:05.05
Lincoln Stoller
uh, okay. That's very nice and, and, and nice if you can get it. Um, but it's not clear what strong means entirely.
42:17.15
Lincoln Stoller
I have two ex marriages and I'm both I'm in contact with both of them, both of my exes. And you could say that the relationships are stronger,
42:32.33
Lincoln Stoller
but only to the extent, um, that I was deluded in the first place. So there's certainly, I didn't leave either of those relationships.
42:44.29
Lincoln Stoller
I felt they left me. I mean, there's no doubt they did. And so to say that the relationships are stronger is kind of existential, you know, stronger in the sense that They're doing what they need to do, but they're denying me what I had expected, which was, I guess, wrong.
42:59.09
Lost in the Groove Podcast
but they're different.
43:05.55
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know, is that a question of coming to realization that, uh, I mean, I do think in fact, and this is kind of a little out there, I don't expect people really understand, but I do think that both of those two X's were people that I pathologically was a track was attracted to pathologically for a need for personal need.
43:30.87
Lincoln Stoller
don't, I I'm still not going to reject that. I still think that pathology was, uh, called love, but love can, uh, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna go to my grave, believing in my version of love, which may be pathological and overly attached.
43:37.30
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I
43:45.66
Lincoln Stoller
And I don't think so, but of course, of course I don't think so. Um, and I may never find the person who agrees with me,
43:55.04
Lincoln Stoller
But I'm sort of stuck on that. and
43:57.42
Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know i don't
44:00.28
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I'm kind of in the belief that you don't necessarily need people to agree with you with everything. You know, there are things that are personal to yourself that regards to your own personal life.
44:12.83
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, like you said, it revolves around you either between a relationship with somebody. Like, doesn't necessarily mean that everybody has to be involved in that situation. Does that make sense?
44:26.77
Lincoln Stoller
I'm not sure you should try to make sense. I think that might be a, a crutch. I don't think it has to make sense. I think it might work, but the two parties are going to have a different sense of what making sense means.
44:41.23
Lincoln Stoller
So you have to be big enough to allow different kinds of make sense.
44:41.35
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
44:45.83
Lincoln Stoller
So, uh, I had an uncle who got divorced very, when I was very young and they had two families that after each partner got remarried, And they would all get together.
44:57.61
Lincoln Stoller
And I thought that was such an inspiring family where people could then split up and then reform as two separate families. And everybody seemed to be, uh, you know, in allegiance with each other.
45:13.96
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
45:13.98
Lincoln Stoller
I don't know if it was true because it was only what I saw from the outside and they were cousins.
45:14.10
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
45:19.73
Lincoln Stoller
So I was only remotely connected them, but, uh, You know, um you know, there was an example where I guess you could agree to disagree and reform a relationship on a new agreement.
45:35.74
Lincoln Stoller
um
45:38.09
Lincoln Stoller
I think personally, I'm too intense for that work. I get involved with people who are not lenient enough. I don't know which. um
45:48.22
Lincoln Stoller
I can't use my personal experience too much. Generally, I use it. personally with the people who are my clients and I find or draw from examples in my own life co correspondences with theirs, my clients, and that works.
46:08.57
Lincoln Stoller
Um, but I think it makes me somewhat unusual because I have no tolerance and no interest in generalizing it to everyone. You know, I would not be ah good actor appealing to a general sense of,
46:26.01
Lincoln Stoller
a theme. i mean, actors are famous for not kind of knowing who they are anyhow, because that's kind of their that profession.
46:31.19
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right yeah Sure
46:33.15
Lincoln Stoller
But, ah you know, my business is knowing who I am, even at the expense of over extending myself to people.
46:43.36
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right.
46:43.94
Lincoln Stoller
so So I have no social life because I can't put up with trivial stuff. I want to go right to the heart of the matter with everyone right away. which is fine if they're paying you $200, because they'll say, great, that's where I wanted to go in the first place.
46:52.84
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
46:57.47
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right.
46:57.54
Lincoln Stoller
But in most people, they don't want to go there.
46:59.90
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-mm.
46:59.89
Lincoln Stoller
They're not, you know. So I'm happy not wasting my time, but I'm sad that I don't have anything but paying clients as a socialite.
47:03.02
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
47:10.12
Lincoln Stoller
And you, I have podcast people who I talk to, you know, and I appreciate very much these conversations.
47:10.64
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Uh...
47:19.23
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. it's really For me, it allows me to see different perspectives and different things. I like to have open conversations. And the reason being is I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish community.
47:34.17
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I left around like:47:41.02
Lost in the Groove Podcast
and What that means for me is that I've had to kind of learn and adapt to survive to an environment I was never raised in. And i think I'm managing and I'm doing perfectly fine. But one of the things that have helped me along the way personally has been being able to see different perspectives. so
48:07.70
Lincoln Stoller
That's good. I mean, it sounds good to me. But, you know, it's weird because you came from a Jewish background.
48:15.86
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Uh-huh.
48:15.85
Lincoln Stoller
I came from a Jewish background. I didn't think it was, but it's like it was one of those secular Jewish backgrounds. I never had anything to do with religion, but it percolated into the family and the sexual gender stereotypes and work habits and self-image or lack of self-confidence.
48:30.57
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Uh-huh.
48:37.41
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Uh-huh.
48:37.68
Lincoln Stoller
um and various other things, the artistry
48:42.52
Lincoln Stoller
and the emphasis on knowing. So it's it's there. And um
48:50.96
Lincoln Stoller
yeah, like one of my exes came from a ah Calvinist Michigan background, which is very different.
49:01.68
Lincoln Stoller
I, I, This is one of my ignorances of my youth. I didn't feel that there was that much difference between people and that we could work it all out in any situation, science, relationship, social.
49:14.95
Lincoln Stoller
And I realized, no, that there's just too much momentum behind a person's personality and too little desire to to drop who they are for all relationships to work out in the best of possible ways.
49:33.13
Lincoln Stoller
It would be different if you were just two people on a desert island. Then I think you'd probably, you'd get along. But too many people let burned bridges, you know, go by, water under the bridge and off to another situation.
49:47.08
Lincoln Stoller
So what I'm saying is I no longer believe that lineage is so as irrelevant as I used to think. And so now when I look at my relationship to the Calvinist Michigan person, I see vast differences.
50:03.72
Lincoln Stoller
you know, which which I thought were just going to be background history, but they aren't, you know, like they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And that's kind of like my, my new, my new sort of go-to, um, attitude is that it, the people I get involved with clients aside, I want to know more about them.
50:28.38
Lincoln Stoller
I want to know about their history. i want to know about their family. And you know, it's interesting and in other cultures, they would have these arranged marriages and we kind of poo-poo that and think how awful that is. But I can see the wisdom in getting to know the family of the person you're getting involved with.
50:45.70
Lincoln Stoller
In fact, and anyone I get involved with now, I want to know their parents because I want to know where they came from and what they're carrying. um
50:56.99
Lincoln Stoller
You want to pause?
00:01.91
Lincoln Stoller
All the best relationships are well grounded in history and lineage.
00:08.81
Lincoln Stoller
I think there's a wisdom in respecting your elders and ancestors, if possible, because you don't get respect automatically, but certain people deserve it.
00:17.47
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
00:23.01
Lincoln Stoller
And it's also interesting, like, oh, I'm seeing this is this is bothering me now. I have a 26 year old, 27 year old son, and I have a 14 year old son and the 14 year old son is now entering that phase in which 14 year olds are supposed to be antagonistic to their parents.
00:49.05
Lincoln Stoller
You know, there's that whole thing that I don't watching his friends struggle with their parents.
00:50.88
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:58.67
Lincoln Stoller
And I don't have any struggle with my 14 year old. And I can't imagine struggling with him.
01:06.45
Lincoln Stoller
So I'm watching these other parents and their aggression to their children and their children's aggression back to their parents. And I'm thinking, what a tragedy. They should, they should get some counseling. They should talk to me.
01:20.01
Lincoln Stoller
But of course, people only gain when they're ready. So
01:26.92
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
01:28.40
Lincoln Stoller
And that's kind of the tragedy tragedy of addiction and excessive habits is that you're often not ready to change until something really hits you that's, you know, traumatic or injurious.
01:48.49
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
01:49.62
Lincoln Stoller
And that's sad. So, you know, I mean, here's here's my lesson to every listener is like, don't wait for you know, bridges to be burned. Don't wait for catastrophe and, and, uh, unrepairable damage.
02:06.39
Lincoln Stoller
And don't think that counseling or guidance or coaching is just for sick and weak people. Cause it's actually not, it's usually the people who are ready to move forward that get advice and help.
02:13.72
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
02:23.85
Lincoln Stoller
And, you know, I have to keep thinking of that myself doing it. in my own issues, which I should get advice and help for.
02:30.21
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
02:30.62
Lincoln Stoller
Um, but, uh, yeah, just to encourage people, I mean, in a, in a very pragmatic sense, it's about a return on investment. I mean, there are things that you never gain until you put out for, you know, until you put yourself at risk.
02:49.62
Lost in the Groove Podcast
i I very much believe that failure is not a bad thing. i think failure in and itself is success. It allows you to push yourself forward and not make the same mistakes twice.
03:07.06
Lincoln Stoller
Well, unless you made the same mistake twice, maybe you don't need to make it a third time.
03:09.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Or four times. Yeah, yeah.
03:11.73
Lincoln Stoller
That's I mean, my favorite quote seems to be Thomas Edison, who said, I failed my way to success. And it's true. The bigger your idea, the more failure you can expect it to encounter.
03:24.83
Lincoln Stoller
And you want big ideas because they take you to higher levels. So expect.
03:31.04
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
03:31.51
Lincoln Stoller
Blowback and and what appears as failure.
03:31.50
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
03:36.43
Lincoln Stoller
But, you know, I would say it's not failure in the sense that it's making clear what the dead ends are. And if you didn't know the dead ends, you'd head off down them. So the sooner that's that we say in software, you know, fail fast and fail early.
03:49.07
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know, that's the way to get the most out of ah bad situation with the least consequence.
03:56.62
Lost in the Groove Podcast
who
03:56.86
Lincoln Stoller
Well, the most least negative consequence. Um, so yeah, it's like, but then are you expected like, act like a person with Tourette's and just curse out everyone who bothers you, you know, maybe that's not a bad, maybe, not maybe, i don't know.
04:14.37
Lincoln Stoller
It depends.
04:15.53
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Works for some people. works for some people
04:17.59
Lincoln Stoller
Right. I mean, shit, they just don't do it to a cop. If you're black, especially, you know, but you know, I mean, fuck it's, it's, there's no general rule, but it does take,
04:22.95
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah it's Especially if you live out here in South Florida. Yeah.
04:34.51
Lincoln Stoller
effort and, and, risk
04:39.47
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It does.
04:39.67
Lincoln Stoller
courage to.
04:39.91
Lost in the Groove Podcast
100%. I think also... i think also I think once when it comes to courage, I think what's kind of forgotten it's something you have to earn. It doesn't just like, you know, it's not like a badge, like a purple pin that you put on. Right?
04:59.48
Lincoln Stoller
Courage is not a purple pin that you put on. No.
05:01.96
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
05:05.38
Lincoln Stoller
um I mean, it it it fits in the whole thing. A lot of the stuff that you need to do, you won't get rewarded for or recognized for. So you have to be strong enough. I mean, here's the, I think the next level, which is the weirdest level.
05:18.99
Lincoln Stoller
You've got to find inner spiritual guidance in yourself. Call it self-love, call it spirit, call it fortitude or courage or foolishness, but you've got to have some
05:36.79
Lincoln Stoller
dedication to something that guides you in the right direction. And it's sort of a higher, a higher thing. That's partly, or maybe totally what my job is as a therapist is to help people find that so that they can find their own guidance in their own correct direction and not rely on me because I'm never there at the right time.
06:01.00
Lincoln Stoller
I'm always like a week late. So finding that,
06:05.88
Lost in the Groove Podcast
you
06:08.69
Lincoln Stoller
Um, I mean, I'm just reading a book a friend wrote who's a spirit channel, and she does that by talking to her spirit guides who appear to her as voices from the, you know, beyond.
06:21.49
Lincoln Stoller
And she has conversations. She's got a whole 400 page book of conversations with her spirit guides. And I'm thinking, well, that's not how I work, but if that's the way you're going to get the direction, fine.
06:37.72
Lincoln Stoller
Um,
06:40.42
Lincoln Stoller
And this person in particular, she doesn't have that active a social life. So I guess she can have these private conversations without freaking everybody out because they're just between her and them.
06:52.61
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You got a point there.
06:52.99
Lincoln Stoller
um You know, I mean, if you were on stage,
07:00.45
Lincoln Stoller
that's very interesting. a performer has to perform to the audience. If you just get out there, and get up on the stage and rave like a lunatic, you Career probably won't go very far.
07:11.07
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know,
07:12.15
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But I i i like... um I like that perspective of the the deeper level of being something spiritual, where it can be something like, like you said, like either self-love, you know, I think also people being able to have like the self-confidence, not that the shallow self-confidence, like real self-confidence, like you actually believe in yourself. Because like you said, like we've been talking about how stepping through those layers, that person being able to see, hey,
07:41.94
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I want to get here, but I got to get through all of this to get there. And like, I know what my an gold ah my end goal is. That's where I want to get. I'm going to get through all of this.
07:56.24
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah. And you keep stopping when I think you're about to make a point.
08:03.74
Lost in the Groove Podcast
what i'm trying to What I'm trying to get at is it's not...
08:08.66
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's not something that is instant gratification. It's something that, like I said, in regards to courage, it's something that you have to work towards. It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen in 10 years. It could take 50 years.
08:25.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It take towards the end of your life. like I don't think there is a time. What I'm trying to get is there is there isn't and necessarily like a time limit or a time frame of when these things happen when they don't happen.
08:38.01
Lincoln Stoller
Well, that's why death is useful because it says that there is a, there is an end point. And if you want it to happen in your life, then you do have the budget for it to some extent.
08:49.98
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know, how old are you? 30 maybe. So, so, you know, you've got 30 years before you start to look at the last third of your life or you know, something like that.
09:04.26
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know, 30 active years where you have the energy to run around and make lots of mistakes and, um, do various other things after that.
09:13.93
Lost in the Groove Podcast
looking forward. Yeah.
09:15.56
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah. But like after that, once you're 60, then you're gonna, it's not that you're gonna retire. It's that you hopefully you'll be on the right track by then you won't still be lost in the jungle, you know, or out on the street or something like that, because many things, you know, opportunities will start to close down, health work,
09:29.69
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
09:37.43
Lincoln Stoller
mobility, uh, all kinds of stuff. So you want to like have found some calm waters by that time. So that's very helpful to know that, you know, I wrote a book.
09:50.58
Lincoln Stoller
My first book was called the learning project. When I interviewed people of all different ages and ask them, you know, what were they trying to learn and why, and how did they expect to get there? And I divided my interviews of which there were 35 among
10:05.85
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh
10:06.98
Lincoln Stoller
young people, middle-aged people, and old people or senior people. And that was the biggest difference. The young people, they didn't see any horizon. It was so far off. You know, there they were trying everything, going in any direction, had all kinds of things they wanted to do and chaotic life. and And they didn't have a very good rehearsed presentation.
10:27.14
Lincoln Stoller
You know, they go left and right and up and down. And it was great. I love to talk to them. They're so full of energy. And then the middle-aged people, you know, they were like trying to, ratchet it down and hone it in and become well appreciated and defined and, you know, hopefully have found a way forward. And they had a story and they had values and they were going to tell them to you.
10:53.13
Lincoln Stoller
And then the old people, of course, I picked these to be interesting people, not just your average schmo, um had inspiring stories that they'd actually written down somewhere.
11:05.98
Lincoln Stoller
And And they had a whole sort of, uh, out the rear window view of, of life and they were accomplished and, uh, they could be inspiring, but they didn't have the same kind of frenetic energy as the teenagers, obviously.
11:24.12
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
11:24.72
Lincoln Stoller
So I, I thought this was, you know, I had expected maybe I'd get an answer to this question of how do you learn, but I really got three different answers, you know, and, and I'm, I don't even know what the answers were. They were three different points of view and many different answers.
11:41.44
Lincoln Stoller
So I spoke to musicians and technical people and social people and all kinds of stuff. Um, yeah, my point was,
11:50.05
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Very in-depth.
11:56.65
Lincoln Stoller
wait, I'm trying to remember what was the last thing you said? What was the last thing you said? Remember?
12:00.01
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I said very in depth.
12:02.03
Lincoln Stoller
No, before that, before I started talking, um,
12:02.02
Lost in the Groove Podcast
it's ya um but I
12:07.37
Lincoln Stoller
Oh, well, we'll have to pick it up. It'll come. It'll come back to the surface.
12:14.89
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I find that really interesting because I think it may also show like what you're saying is is that it's almost where you're at different viewpoints.
12:26.86
Lost in the Groove Podcast
within the lifetime, you know, from birth to death. And your mindset does eventually change as you age. And i mean, you know, the idea of staying young, great, stay young.
12:43.54
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But to your point, and I 100% agree, it's you're not going to get the same answers.
12:56.79
Lincoln Stoller
No.
12:59.57
Lincoln Stoller
All right. Well, let me take this opportunity to answer your first question in, you know, what's undoubtedly the short time we have left.
13:03.48
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yes.
13:09.07
Lincoln Stoller
You first question was about neural tone, brain training or neurological
13:09.00
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
13:16.41
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
13:19.84
Lincoln Stoller
training. And I do think that is an important question and it, plays ah role in everybody's life. So I want to explain it a little bit.
13:32.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
13:33.29
Lincoln Stoller
I talked about how your culture and your lineage and your attitudes and your genetics influences how you think and what you do. And it does.
13:41.13
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
13:43.73
Lincoln Stoller
But it may be below that there's a kind of level of neural tone, which we generally consider definitive of a personality. So there are the frantic people,
13:56.29
Lincoln Stoller
and they're the tense people and they're the laid back people. um Maybe they're the creative people and, you know, whatever, you know, you see. And that's not true.
14:09.43
Lincoln Stoller
All of those things are learned to at least half a degree, half of of what you see. So I do believe that you become habituated to that personality and it's neural.
14:16.36
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
14:24.95
Lincoln Stoller
So If you're an anxious person, you carry that in everything. You tend to be reactive. You tend to be suspicious. You tend to be defensive.
14:36.42
Lincoln Stoller
Um, you tend to be perhaps exuberant, but that's a neural state and you can tone it down. Um, there are other people who may be depressed or depressive, and that's another neural state, a kind of feeling anxious or threatened or insecure or inadequate.
14:59.75
Lincoln Stoller
And you can change that. With neural training. It sounds like bullshit. But you'd have to understand it.
15:08.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
But i'm i'm I'm hearing what you're saying, and honestly, it it makes a lot of sense. It's almost where you can have more control of your mind. Right?
15:20.57
Lincoln Stoller
But even below your mind, i want to emphasize it's below
15:22.32
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
15:24.65
Lincoln Stoller
you' It's the foundation of your mind. It's what your mind sits on.
15:27.21
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
15:29.42
Lincoln Stoller
So think of it like a structure built on land. Is the land swampy? Is it rocky?
15:36.14
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
15:36.30
Lincoln Stoller
Is it level? So you can change, you can go in with a kind of the bulldozer of neural training and level the land and you can make yourself a less anxious person.
15:37.54
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
15:47.38
Lincoln Stoller
And if you do that or make a less self less depressed person, less traumatized person, less reactive person, a more creative person, a more spontaneous, you know, any any of these things. If you do that, it changes subtly everything.
16:04.56
Lincoln Stoller
But subtly is the point.
16:06.25
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
16:06.50
Lincoln Stoller
It doesn't, you know, open the windows to sunshine where it was dark before. It just... Changes. Here's an example. I used to give this neural training called neurofeedback to anybody who would walk in the door.
16:20.23
Lincoln Stoller
I would go to my friend's house who has people walking in their door all the time. She actually ran the New York city but village, Halloween parades, constant stream of people in and out. And I would give them all neural training. They had no idea what I was doing.
16:33.32
Lincoln Stoller
And I had no idea who they were. And I remember one guy came back the next day and he said, well, it didn't do anything to me, not at all, but Today, everybody's been nice to me and and' been and happy to see me and greeted me warmly, whereas they knew usually don't. And I was offered a job.
16:52.19
Lincoln Stoller
And I'm thinking, yes, well, that's the difference. You don't know how it changes you, but other people sense it in your energy. It could be in how you look at them or how you carry yourself, whether you stand up straight or whether you look around or whether you breathe the air or deep breathe or not and you don't even know this stuff, body language.
17:12.87
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Or body language. Yes.
17:17.12
Lincoln Stoller
It, it can change your body. Like that's just an indication of what the neural base does.
17:20.35
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
17:25.44
Lincoln Stoller
And of course, you know, this may not affect what you decide to do, what you decide to, you know, your choices between a and B or what to have for the dinner, but other people start, uh, changing their orbit around you and that
17:42.96
Lincoln Stoller
affects a lot of stuff over time.
17:44.65
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
17:45.62
Lincoln Stoller
Who will collaborate with you? Who will put up with you? Who is attracted to you? I mean, I'd like to be more attractive to more people, but it doesn't seem to work. But so what?
17:56.66
Lincoln Stoller
You know, i have faith in myself. You know, when when you're 18 and you're horny, you can go out and do all kinds of stupid stuff to make yourself attractive.
18:07.66
Lincoln Stoller
And then you'll learn in a few years what comes from that. which is probably not what you expected. But when you're older, you know and like I say, two marriages behind me, two wonderful kids, two two ex-partners who ah did not live up to my expectations, I don't wanna do it again.
18:30.49
Lincoln Stoller
you know so So i have you have to have faith with who you are, whoever it is.
18:38.08
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
18:40.72
Lincoln Stoller
You know, and you accept yourself for who you are, even if it's not the person. I'm not famous. I'm not rich. ah Most people would like to be celebrated and secure. Those things are OK.
18:53.35
Lincoln Stoller
But. You have to realize that coming back to brain training. You can't build a skyscraper on a swamp, you know, you have to build what's appropriate to your personality.
19:07.32
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
19:08.43
Lincoln Stoller
and And you try to inform. in increase your personality in positive ways. Be maybe more creative, ah more supportive, ah more courageous. um But it's it's very hard to predict where that will lead you.
19:24.51
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, very much so. And you know what? ah The truth is is, that sometimes we're not perfect. And i think that this idea of perfection, you know, exterior perfection, internal perfection,
19:43.02
Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's not real. We're imperfect we're imperfect beings. that That is human beings in design.
19:50.83
Lincoln Stoller
Well, if it weren't us that was imperfect, our environment is imperfect. So it's not clear what it would be to be perfect. mean, you could be the Dalai Lama and it doesn't make the world a greater place, although you may be very positive influence.
20:01.31
Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
20:04.57
Lincoln Stoller
so And I do think ultimately, and I'm not sure about this, but I feel it, that your value to others defines your value to yourself.
20:17.45
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
20:18.58
Lincoln Stoller
So if you're a positive influence, you can feel good about yourself. And like I said, I don't know what to make of it. So can you feel good about being a bad person?
20:30.59
Lincoln Stoller
Well, I guess you can, but um I guess I don't support that. So I think you have to be. So what does it mean to be a good person? ah What does it mean to support other people around you?
20:44.41
Lincoln Stoller
It, you know, it keeps getting back to these dichotomies that You know, you have to be courageous, you have to be of faith in yourself, and you have to be creative, and you have to be willing to fail.
20:57.52
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm. Yeah. See?
21:00.69
Lincoln Stoller
And this is, this is what like the role model I try to show my to my teenager. And you know, when he has different attitudes, I say, you know, I think your attitudes suck, but go ahead, you know, do it.
21:14.90
Lincoln Stoller
He wants to be a Pentecostal.
21:14.89
Lost in the Groove Podcast
it
21:17.32
Lincoln Stoller
Go for it. I think it's stupid, but okay. You know, and he gives me the finger and says, Oh, fuck off, dad. And I say, okay, you know, whatever, but I'll still, you know, love you and and do everything I can to support you.
21:31.43
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
21:32.10
Lincoln Stoller
Right.
21:34.02
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. I, I think sometimes what gets lost in translation is if you come off offensive, you know, and put a stance of where, no, you can't do this. And I'm lock you in a box, you know, in regards like, Oh, I'm going to restrict things from you.
21:49.80
Lost in the Groove Podcast
it it doesn't necessarily always make a very healthy environment. I'm from my own personal experience. It actually caused more harm than it did good, but I've,
21:58.32
Lincoln Stoller
I always think it does. I think you have to be really super generous and support people in making their mistakes.
22:07.27
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
22:08.17
Lincoln Stoller
You can say you think it's a mistake, but you if they depend on you, you still have to support them. So, you know, parents these days seem to rail against their kids 24 hour obsession with video games.
22:21.70
Lincoln Stoller
I understand. But, you know, what's the choice that they're They're being so they're social beings and they're these video games are our social environments. And so I support my son and whatever he does, which is like 24 hour video game playing.
22:38.81
Lincoln Stoller
And I know from other generations and other parents that other kids have done this, too, and they turn out fine.
22:44.91
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, like radio heads, for example, the disc jockeys. i mean, throughout time, there's always been this. And i think, again, like, you know, you have to come with a generous amount of salt because, you know, this idea of putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.
23:05.61
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Can you really 100% put yourself in somebody else's shoes and really understand them? Maybe, but I don't really think to a full degree.
23:16.73
Lincoln Stoller
Well, Steve Martin has a joke that you should always walk a mile in someone else's shoes because then you know how it feels and you've got their shoes.
23:27.31
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
23:27.50
Lincoln Stoller
But.
23:30.02
Lincoln Stoller
That's Steve Martin for you.
23:30.04
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh.
23:31.49
Lincoln Stoller
But yeah, I mean, you never know. How do you.
23:38.55
Lincoln Stoller
i mean, yeah. There's so many undercurrents of what goes on.
23:45.63
Lincoln Stoller
If you can't be entirely supportive of someone else, you're probably injecting your own need into the situation.
23:55.36
Lost in the Groove Podcast
who
23:56.66
Lincoln Stoller
And um then you're doing something therapeutic for yourself.
23:58.53
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Powerful
24:01.53
Lincoln Stoller
And then we're back to what you said, you know, okay, fail once, okay, fail twice, oh, okay, maybe. Fail three times if it's in the same way, the same failure.
24:12.96
Lincoln Stoller
Now maybe you should consider something else. So I have two failed marriages. And so I'm going to say, oh, I'm not going to the same again. You know, fail twice. It must be my fault.
24:24.96
Lincoln Stoller
And am I going to live to see the right choice? Maybe, but maybe not. But at least I'm going to have some great kids.
24:35.75
Lincoln Stoller
And um I help my clients and I write good books. So, you know, they can write that on my tombstone.
24:45.76
Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know what, though? the The work that you do, people don't understand. like It's important because not everybody has the skills and abilities to do this.
24:58.46
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Not everybody has the patience and coordination to be able to sit down with clients day in and day out. You know, again, i don't think everybody's built this way, but people such as yourself that are able to do these things and be able to have this type of perspective, be able to open to these new ideas of where there is a different approach and it does work.
25:27.84
Lincoln Stoller
Yeah.
25:31.17
Lincoln Stoller
Not everybody's open to hearing it either. So, you know, uh, well, like you said, when you looked at my website, it spans the spectrum from psychotherapy to coaching.
25:34.48
Lost in the Groove Podcast
I know.
25:37.73
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Hopefully we raise some awareness today.
25:47.86
Lincoln Stoller
And that's kind of, I think you have to be agile across that whole spectrum. If you think you're mentally ill, then my effort is to try to help you understand what your strengths are and how to not focus on your illness, but focus on your strengths.
26:06.52
Lincoln Stoller
And if you come to me because you're really strong and you're annoyed by things, my effort is to draw your attention to your weaknesses and what you're overlooking and how you're undermining yourself and maybe you maybe how you're crazy, or I'll say that, but It's, you know, craziness is really ah another degree of dysfunction than simply not coping with circumstances one-on-one.
26:31.98
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
26:34.25
Lincoln Stoller
But, i'll you know, I'll talk to people and say, you know, you're just obsessed with success. I mean, this is often the problem with high performance people is they're obsessed with success and anything less is unsatisfactory in themselves or anyone else.
26:49.56
Lincoln Stoller
And that's almost a mental illness too. it You know, look at you in trouble. I mean, yeah. So these people get upset with things they shouldn't be upset about because they're not important and they get rewarded with things that aren't really rewarding like money.
26:58.90
Lost in the Groove Podcast
know yeah
27:06.06
Lincoln Stoller
So, you know, this is the, the, the hyper successful person is very much like an addicted person. So, uh, and we call addiction, a mental illness sort of. So, uh, what's the difference?
27:18.88
Lincoln Stoller
So that's why my website and my attitude spans a wide spectrum, ah because I don't think you can be just one. You can't just address your paranoia and think everything's fine now, unless you actually have a sense of purpose.
27:31.87
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, totally.
27:34.54
Lincoln Stoller
And I've had good people who insist that they're virtuous, who I've had to show that they were not so virtuous.
27:42.78
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Sometimes it's hard to see your ugly side.
27:45.35
Lincoln Stoller
I think it always is.
27:47.85
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, very much so. um I was going to ask you on regarding your website. I know that you have social media. You also run your own podcast. Is that correct?
28:03.42
Lincoln Stoller
I have occasionally interviewed people and I'd like to do that more, but I'm cautious because i don't want to talk about things I'm not interested in.
28:12.61
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, totally agree with you.
28:13.68
Lincoln Stoller
But yes, I've been doing a lot of podcasts. And you know, I'm not actually sure what we're talking about here because I mean, I know what we've spoken about and I'm hoping that the listeners are on this frequency, creative, artistic,
28:33.49
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
28:34.89
Lincoln Stoller
But I'm, you know, I'd love to hear from them. So tell them ah that they can ah book a 15 minute free conversation with me and other things and read my books and podcasts and blog posts.
28:51.34
Lincoln Stoller
And, ah you know that's that's kind of my always closing statement is that people have to be courageous and they have to be willing to fail and they have to be willing to put out and they have to recognize that those things are easiest in the presence of somebody who's accepting.
29:08.99
Lincoln Stoller
And
29:12.64
Lincoln Stoller
e you should find out pretty quickly if paying for help is valuable, because if it is valuable and you're not doing it, you're missing something.
29:21.28
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
29:23.27
Lincoln Stoller
um Hopefully that will advance everybody and let them be even greater failures and what less hurtful and wasting of less time.
29:39.63
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah but You know what? Honestly, i I think what I'm going to do is to make this easier for um anybody that's listening out there. i will put the um link for your website in the description box below. And then regarding the schedule for the 15-minute call, do you have a link or is it on your website directly?
29:59.00
Lincoln Stoller
It is both. It's just my website slash schedule 15. without any spaces schedule one five.
30:05.18
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
30:08.15
Lincoln Stoller
So it's mindstrengthbalance.com slash schedule one five because it's a 15 minute thing.
30:12.30
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Okay.
30:14.58
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Perfect.
30:14.72
Lincoln Stoller
So yeah, I'd love to talk to people and I'm especially interested in creatives and yeah, people who are, I was going to say troubled, but I should say struggling to produce I'm a, I'm a, what do you call it?
30:31.65
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
30:32.98
Lincoln Stoller
High, I'm a high performance person myself.
30:35.78
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
30:36.22
Lincoln Stoller
I was always over booked my time and resources.
30:42.05
Lost in the Groove Podcast
i I like to, i mean, I call it busy, you know, just keeping yourself busy constantly. And i think the importance of conversations like this very much so I've structured my podcast around me kind of putting myself in and the perspective of being the audience.
31:01.25
Lost in the Groove Podcast
We're in the sense of, I'm an artist. I'm a creative person. i like to, like I said earlier, like I like to be able to see the different perspectives, especially when it comes to how are how other artists think. Or, for example, in your case, as a therapist, how you found your view in regards to therapy and the like direction that works for you.
31:23.83
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um I think that is in itself awareness to allow people to see different ways instead of being fixed into this mindset of like, oh, there's only one way of doing things.
31:36.59
Lost in the Groove Podcast
There's only one solution for problems. I don't think that's real.
31:45.85
Lincoln Stoller
Of course, it's not good as long as they're different problems for different solutions.
31:50.76
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right, exactly.
31:54.52
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
31:56.70
Lincoln Stoller
Well, there's a lot that could be talked about with regard to different kinds of problems. I mean, the the typical different problems are technical, how to be creative in your field, relationship, obviously, family, historical legacy, sometimes with parents, sometimes with kids.
32:09.62
Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah
32:16.30
Lincoln Stoller
Um, what you might call mental illness, which is a category. Some people accept it.
32:27.23
Lincoln Stoller
And, you know, I say accept it if it's helpful, you know, you get insurance money or something, you get money for it and it comes with a stigma. But if you can't avoid the stigma because everyone thinks you're nuts, anyhow, might as well profit from it.
32:39.91
Lincoln Stoller
And then there are other, you know, things like attention deficit and difficulties in focus and It's problems with sleep and problems with health, physical health. I don't think any of this is cut and dry.
32:52.56
Lincoln Stoller
You might say are different approaches to these different problems, but I tend to mix it all together. If you have a physical problem, let's talk about its mental aspects.
33:01.34
Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
33:01.48
Lincoln Stoller
If you have a mental problem, let's talk about its physical aspects. Because what are you missing? What are you overlooking? What strengths might be there?
33:15.36
Lincoln Stoller
It gets exhausting.
33:15.50
Lost in the Groove Podcast
i've It does. it But you know what? Honestly, i really, really appreciate you taking the time talking with me and going over all of these ideas, especially when it comes to creativity and really understanding, you know, like we were saying, like what it is to be courageous, you know, and taking those different ideas and mixing them around.
33:38.90
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um but yeah, thank you.
33:43.94
Lincoln Stoller
Sure. Hopefully it's helpful. Yeah.
33:47.63
Lost in the Groove Podcast
And yeah, well, um it like I said, if anybody wants to check out um the links and everything will be in the description box below.
33:48.77
Lincoln Stoller
yeah
33:57.69
Lost in the Groove Podcast
um If you want to check out more of the podcast, you can find us at Lost in the Groove pod. So with that, we will catch you on the next one. Peace out.
