#249 - Interview with author Cathelina Duvert

Dave: Oh my God. Do you,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah,

Dave: what exactly do you teach?

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I teach English language arts to seventh graders and ninth graders.

Dave: Is that something that like you just did as like a, a like a line, like for like your career? Or do you just kind of bumble into that just randomly once.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: No, I, I, um, I. I was strategic about it, I guess you could say. Um, I was, I worked, yeah, I worked in as a, in a book publishing company for many years, and then I decided to become a teacher and then I worked, you know, did my certification or my master's degree so I could become a teacher. And then, and then that was it.

education, it's also shaping [: 00:01:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: seventh or eighth grade, like,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: can make and break people.

They can leave memories. Like I can tell you the honest truth, like I remember some teachers that like literally left a mark with me, and

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: are a creative person from, from what I like the little bit that I, I've, I've like, got to know you and. I think that is an amazing balance, right? Because not only are you putting yourself in a place that's definitely stressful, you got to deal with kids. You know, let's be honest, like it's not, they're not always the easiest. They're, they're kind of a little bitchy

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: No they're not.

Dave: and.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: I think that's really amazing. I really think that shows like not only a true sense of character, but also of how much you're able to accomplish. 'cause like you said, it's something that you definitely did strategize.

Like you definitely thought about the pros and the cons that come with it.

BOX: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, I [: 00:02:00

There are some good kids out there. You know, it's a challenge all around.

Dave: And not only, not always is, is it it, is it awarding? Right? You know? We can talk about also how even similar, how teaching and writing kind of have like the same thing in that sense, where you don't

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: that gratification. You know, a

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: you get that negativity, you know, things are not going the way that you want or something's not planned.

. Um. I, I, I'm young, like, [: 00:03:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: a lot of creator people or even educators run into this, but I think it's, it's a real thing that you need to be able to grapple on to be able to handle all of it.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Absolutely. I completely agree with you. It, it is a challenge and you have to continuously, I guess, make sure that you, um, inspire yourself. Um, you make sure that you keep yourself grounded, you know? Um, yeah, I think that's important.

incing us of things that are [: 00:04:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: especially when it comes to writing, especially when it comes to drawing, especially when it comes to making music or films.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: But it's, it's your mind. It's your mind

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: powerful that does that shit to you, which I don't know, how have you been able to deal with that? I'm just curious.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Well, um, so you know that, um, prob you probably know from what you read about me that I have suffered with depression. And so that's my mind, you know, um, really causing me to feel negativity about myself and about the things that I'm doing. And, um, one of the things, a few of the things that I have found that worked for me, I found it completely by accident.

[: 00:05:00

And then we started reading, um, books, uh, self-help books together and discussing them and actually going through the process of changing ourselves based on the self-help books. And I found that all of those combined together really helped me change my mindset along with some other things like, um, positive motivational videos and all that.

fferent things completely by [: 00:06:00

I was just doing it because, hey, my cousins and my sister were doing it, so let me do it too. And then it happened to help me, um, with, uh, my feelings of negativity and my depression, and I was just like, Hey, I found something here that was kind of cool.

Dave: I think it's something really interesting, right? Because we live in a period where we had a pandemic and isolation

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: we have forgotten that one of the ways that of the ways that we've been able to heal sometimes get out of our shell and be able to grow as individuals to have those other people around us.

Yeah, you said, you know, being able to have like a cousin or having a sister or just even really, really close friends, somebody that you can,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: to, you can confide in and they

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

this. You want to try it out [: 00:07:00

'cause let's be honest, like you are limited in your own scope. You know, you see things through your own your own direction. Other people

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Absolutely.

Dave: to pick up on things differently than you can.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A different perspective is always, um. It's always beneficial, right? And, but they also have to be on the same page as you, right? You can't be somebody who's, um, looking to change your life in one specific way and somebody else. Um, they have a different perspective of it, but their different perspective is going against what you want to do.

So you have to be careful with that as well, right?

Dave: You have, I mean, 'cause look, you know, for even for myself, right? We're I definitely. I've had a lot of trauma. You know, I, I came from a pretty difficult upbringing for me to sit next to somebody that came from a pretty cushy background. You know, somebody that was

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: in an upper class [: 00:08:00

Like my traumas and things are very difficult, different than yours.

don't, it's not really gonna [: 00:09:00

You probably just, like you said, you're not gonna be able to. Uh, really take them seriously with what, what it is that they're trying to help you with.

Dave: Yeah, I mean, especially when it comes to also cultural classes, you know,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: we are right, like I'm, I'm originally from New York and I live down here in South Florida, and something that you, you tend to run into is lot of the times. People come from different countries, you know, like they'll either come from like Haiti or Puerto Rico or Jamaica or Trinidad, you know, like from the Caribbeans, and they have very different culture. Then you do like, yeah, we're all living here in America and yet America's immigrants in a melting pot. But there's that too, right? So a lot of the times where are things that you can relate on, but they're also coming from their own culture, you know? Like

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

at's very well discussed. So [: 00:10:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: right.

Dave: able to. Like I'm in vocational school and I'm able to talk with these guys. They are able to open up and they feel that 'cause they

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: their whole life, they have people now

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: around that gives that to them.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dave: of being able to explore and open up your perspective, if

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Absolutely. I completely agree with that. Um, I happen to be Haitian American and, um, I completely. Yeah, I completely hear what you're saying because the cultures are so different. They look at mental health differently. They look at a whole bunch of different aspects differently. And if you are trying to have a discussion with them based on that, and you have very two opposing viewpoints, it's hard to, um, come to terms with whatever it is that they're talking about.

You just have to agree to disagree and just, you know, keep it moving.

specially when you're around [: 00:11:00

Right. You know, they

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: your mind is going all over the place. I feel. Being able to educate yourself and having a little bit more understanding of other people. allows you to have that zen, that relaxed state of, I'm not gonna take everything in, so, so full hearted, I'm gonna take everything in slowly and gradually kind of take it as it is. Because what you end up doing is you just, you're hurting yourself. You're not

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: in any shape or form. You know, you're just gonna

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: then want to be like, I don't wanna go out. I'm gonna do DoorDash and play video games and lock my door and be gone for five years.

as it comes to you and, and [: 00:12:00

Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Dave: I think also, I mean everything like we've also discussed, and I think like you're definitely the right person to talk to about this is We tend to tend to think that we're alone in a lot of things. And it's true like a lot of the times in life, like you are alone. Like you have to be able to be independent and be able to make your own choices and things. But I think also being aware and understanding that not having people in your life is not healthy. I think it's one of the leading causes to why so many people are mentally sick.

t be where I am right now if [: 00:13:00

And even her EE even her, I, I, I, I kept out of my. You know, my world at some point when I was just all by myself and just wanting to, to sort of wallow in, in my sadness in my depression. And it wasn't until, you know, she's the one who, who's, who sought, uh, therapy for me. She's the one who's just like, you know, you need to get out of this funk.

onger time to get out of the [: 00:14:00

Dave: 100%. I think also what's interesting, right? A lot of the times, and I've just noticed this as an artist, a lot of artists definitely. have like trauma or like you said, you know, deal with a lot of times very difficult things. And then a lot of times what flourishes out of there is the artistry. Do you

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Hmm.

Dave: like, in your case, with your book and with your writing, do you think that that's the product that came out of it?

Or do you think that was just a longer road else?

ut it as much back then. Um, [: 00:15:00

You know, I, I created a, a female protagonist who was going through the same issues because I didn't know what I was dealing with. So I called them issues who was going through the same issues as, as I was, and. Um, I, I didn't really know where the story was going until I was finally diagnosed with depression and I was like, okay, that's what my main character has.

She has depression. And that's what I did a, um, some research on it. I used my own experience and how I felt during my depressive states in order to create my, my main character and to create her struggles. And so, yeah, my, my. My novel is a direct result of what I experienced as, as a depressive, and, um, I just did a bunch of research so that I could make sure that it was as accurate as as it can be.

So,

Dave: I

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: yeah,

Dave: I really love that

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I,

ad other authors on that are [: 00:16:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: mm-hmm.

Dave: something that I've noticed, especially with teachers, a lot of the times you can feel limited underappreciated. 'cause let's be honest, like a lot of places in this country, teachers are not paid well. And they're not treated, uh, to the best standards.

Like a lot of the times, teachers will try to talk to the principal or talk to education like, Hey, can we get some changes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing, we're waiting for the budget to be updated, yada. It's just this

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm.

Dave: over and over again, you know?

And then. Again, like in a way, teaching is a type of craftsmanship. Like there's an artistry that comes to it. And when you're, you love language and you love being able to be creative and then trying to figure out what the hell is going on in your brain and just to be able to write down, create a protagonist, like create a story around it. That

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

ng with this. What do I do? I[: 00:17:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For me, um, writing was. Also something that helped me, um, uh, as I said before, it helped me understand, yeah, it was like my therapy, right? I felt like, you know, as I, as I wrote down what I was feeling, I just let it all down on the page and, and it, you know, freed myself of the, what I call the depression monster.

Um, and as far as as, yeah, a few things and as far as as teaching is concerned, it could definitely be something that's frustrating, that could add to the depression, you know? Um. And, and we just have to find ways of coping. Right. I found some ways to cope with depression and on a yearly basis I find ways to cope with, with teaching and, and the, and the things that, that, uh, we have to deal with as, as teachers.

Yeah.

Uh oh. Are.[: 00:18:00

Dave: I, you know what though? It's also about like, it's also about the awareness side of it too, I feel like there, there's always this push of progression, right? That we need better education in this country. We need the, you know, to better ourselves for the future generations and for the kids and yada. It's the little things that nobody talks about. It's the fact that you have an education system that is just non appreciative to the people that are putting in the work. Yes, there are a lot of teachers that should not be teaching. I a hundred percent agree with. You know, like I've had plenty of those.

I think we both have plenty of those, but I think there are amazing

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yes, absolutely.

Dave: creative teachers like yourself, right? That. let's be honest, like deserves better, you know, like deserves to be able to like, Hey, I have a real story. I am really passionate. I'm really creative. I'm a really good writer.

able to make a story. know, [: 00:19:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: important. If we're gonna talk about our education, if we're gonna talk about mental health, if we're gonna talk about people. 'cause this is where it starts. This is not where it ends or where it begins.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: You know, it's interesting because. I feel like, um, I used to talk to students, talk to my students a lot more about, you know, different issues in my life, different things in my life. You know, they all know that about my sister, about, you know, the things that I do outside of school. Right. I shared with them.

as gotten to the point where [: 00:20:00

Um, where it's so structured that you have to do certain things and you have to cover certain areas. And, and I, I don't always feel like I'm the teacher that I was many years ago when I first started, because I feel like I, I, I have to teach to the test. I have to do this, and I have to have this by a certain amount of time, and I have to have, I, I don't know, it's just, it, it just feels like I'm not, um, as giving of myself as a teacher as I used to be.

And, and that kind of bothers me. And I, and I'm trying to find ways around that, you know.

in the fact that you cannot [: 00:21:00

You cannot rule and command education. You know, the whole idea is you're supposed to create a strong future generation. are you supposed to do it if you're limiting people to do, like, give you a great example, right? We're, we're talking about the arts, we're talking about being creative. If you try to do the stuff that they do in the education system to the music, the music sector, nobody would be listening to music. You, you'd have songs that'd be exactly two minutes and 50 seconds that have to have the exact same set of words. They can't have certain words because otherwise it's outta context or it's, it's, um, what's the word? It's uncomfortable or it's unsettling. You know, it's not a i, it just go, it just goes on and on and on and on, and then you just, it's enough. That in in itself is limiting. It's not benefiting you. It's not benefiting your students. It's not benefiting anybody. making people money maybe.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: I'm not in that

BOX: I don't know. There are [: 00:22:00

Dave: No,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I, but I, I, I feel like, yeah, I feel like, um, sometimes I'm so overwhelmed that I'm just like, I'm gonna do the bare minimum.

You know, and that's so sad to hear, but you know that again, there's, there's the, the problem with the education system, the way that the teachers are, are expected to do so much, so much with the little amount of time that they have to do it. You know, we are there to, uh, uh, create lesson plans and. Follow through with the lesson plans.

e nurse's office, know which [: 00:23:00

So.

Dave: Yeah.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: there's Therein lies the problem.

Dave: You, you bring a. You bring up something that's really true, which is weird. You cannot expect other people to solve the problem for you, you know? And the idea is like, you don't need to add another 40,000 jobs just to fix the problem. That's not how you fix issues. You don't add more people to fix a problem. think what it comes down to is, right, is clarity and understanding. In the simple context of right, your job is there to be an educator,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: [: 00:24:00

Dave: little bit. You know what?

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: It's the same idea with ano, like it's the same way, same idea with writing, right? You're writing a story, you get up to chapter, let's just say chapter seven, and then you're like, Hey, hang on one, one minute. There's, I'm getting overwhelmed over here. Now I gotta start adding all this May, maybe I need to restructure this a little bit. Maybe I need to go back. There's always a solution. But if you're just gonna keep on throwing tools, you just throw everything you can out of the toolbox at it. not, you're not solving it.

You're

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: everybody.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that, I think a lot of, a lot of teachers are feeling overwhelmed these days, but you know, um. I mean, we just do the best that we can. That's all. Just do the best we can.

at even through all of that, [: 00:25:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: I, I think that's also something that really take into account on how strong people can be. You know, even if you can't change the voice, you know, or if you can't go viral, you know, and you, you can't get a, a, a, a hundred thousand people champing along with you to the rally. If you're able to make those few, those triumphs for yourself. I think that's the most important thing. Like as long as you're able to do that, you are able to continue that. I think is the most important thing.

, I neglect all these things [: 00:26:00

I mean, I, I'm not gonna speak for every teacher, but that's just the way that it is for me. And, um, it. It's only since, I believe last year where I finally said to myself, okay, I am going to take some time out during the week, every week so that I can devote to my writing because I cannot let my, um, my job as a teacher, um, sort of infiltrate my home where I cannot spend any time at home doing my own things.

You know, it can't only be. You know, lesson planning and, and, and grading and all that. So yeah, I think it's very important that,

Dave: Yeah.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: you have to be your own self. You have to take time for the things that you love, the things that nurture you, the things that bring you life, because it cannot be only about the job or else you'll, you'll die a little bit inside.

You can't have that.

hat I've ran into, you know, [: 00:27:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm.

Dave: even if they're not famous, even if they're living in a 55 plus

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right,

Dave: who cares?

They're still happy. They love life. 'cause at least they

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: right. Yes, absolutely. I completely.

Dave: important. I.

er I should say. Yeah. Yeah. [: 00:28:00

Dave: It's so important. You know what though? Like I think with all the time that even being able to speak with you, I think something that really a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. Life isn't, isn't supposed to be easy. It was never designed to be easy. You know,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: at nature and the way that things correlate with one another, you know how you have prey and predators. I. And how even nature itself can be so devastating. I think what we can learn from all of this, that even if life is full of struggles and is not perfect, and it comes with its obstacles, think that is the very nature of why we love life. It's because if everything was perfect, if everything was a utopian, you'd have no drive.

There'd be no purpose to do anything.

ht, right. It would actually [: 00:29:00

Dave: We need pain. need a lot of pain. Just horrible to say, but it's kind of true. It's like I, I'll tell you like some of the most amazing people I have been around are some of the most traumatized, some of the most fucked up people you'll ever meet in your life.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dave: they are very resilient and sometimes the most positive and most outgoing people because like. They've seen the dark shit, you know, and they say

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: you know what? Been there done that ain't doing it again. Like, if I have to live on ramen and ketchup, that's fine.

order to become better human [: 00:30:00

Dave: I know, and it's, it's, it's a hard thing to tell people 'cause you know,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: who wants to go through pay. But it's true. You know, I think

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: you, if you're constantly cushioned, if you're

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: you know, being comforted and you're constantly being blanketed, I. I mean, how much can you possibly grow? How much can you

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: be, you know, a responsible partner?

How could you be a responsible person?

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I completely agree. It's, we, we, we need that, um, contrast. We need that contrast. It helps us as human beings.

hings that we make. It's not [: 00:31:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: communicating? I mean,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: These are basic skills.

dging it, people are putting [: 00:32:00

They're creating not barriers. Um, what am I trying to say? They, they, they're let, letting people know what they will stand up for. They're letting people know what they will not allow. Um, I think we're, we're along the right path as opposed to. 20, 30 years ago when people weren't talking about this, you know?

Dave: I think also the internet really opens up the doors because I, I could tell you in my own experience, like talking with some of these four or five, you know, even seven, eight, even nine, 10 year olds, geez Louise. The stuff that they ask, I'm like, I would've never asked that when I was a kid. But they

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Hmm.

Dave: internet and they're so aware that.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: It. They start asking questions and

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

-year-old where you [: 00:33:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: yeah, of course.

Dave: and, and they like, they come up, they, they figure out and come up.

So maybe in a way that we're creating a generation of problem solvers, they can be more complex at problem solving than we can, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing.

um, at their fingertips. Uh, [: 00:34:00

Doing the work on their own, which only lends to the fact that they are not thinking on their own and they're, and, and I'm afraid that we are teaching, um, or trying to teach youngsters who will not know how to think for themselves. So problem solvers, I'm hoping that you are right, that we are seeing a number of problem solvers coming up, but I also see students.

Who are taking the lazy route and not thinking, not think, not using their thinking skills in order to write down an essay, write down an answer to a question. So I'm kind of afraid for, for this generation that's growing up now,

Dave: interesting you mention that. 'cause you, it's seventh and eighth grade, right? Or is this

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: seventh and ninth graders.

're talking like that's also [: 00:35:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm. It's, it's all about interpretation. It's all about looking at something on the page, looking at the deeper aspects of it. What did you, what do you think the author meant here? What is it about the character that, that you see all these thinking processes? My students were not able to really think about what was going on in the stores, and they just sat there looking at me.

Dave: you also need to, like, for example, I'm in the automotive industry and one of the things that you need to know how to do is to be able to read and understand grammar, because one of the big things in my industry is acronyms. Acronyms is

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right?

Dave: big thing. You have to be able to prognos and dissect and understand of how they, if you

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right,

Dave: skills, it's like you,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: right.

Dave: work in the industry like.

g external, in, in, in order [: 00:36:00

Dave: And you know, the, I, I don't like to get too sci-fi and too crazy over here. 'cause a lot of times, like we speculate, but the ideas in order for us to survive. We integrate with ai, you know, we integrate with as we continue with tech because we are kind of integrated already. We have smartphones and we

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm. Yes.

Dave: if we integrate effectively and smartly, meaning the fact that we still stay, stay human, but now have a and deeper understanding of being able to understand things.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: of what you're saying is we're you are using it as an scapegoat instead of being able to problem

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: and being able to figure things out on your own. You're using an assistant, you're not even using your own

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: [: 00:37:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: you don't need the human

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: It's like just replace a human

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right, right.

Dave: intelligence, have the whole planet running with AI at

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it, it's kind of scary.

Dave: is scary. We

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. Yeah.

Dave: that, you know what the, it, it's hard, right? Because again, I'm not a teacher, but I'm sure if you wanna talk about this, we definitely can. We, it is definitely something that there are people that are passionate about what they're doing. And then you have where you're spending all this time, and then you're being overwhelmed by all this bombardment of all the extra stuff that you need to do, which quote unquote you weren't even hired to do.

Let's just be honest. But

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

ttle shitty. It's like, Hey, [: 00:38:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: It is interesting because I take it so personally when I find out that they've done something like that, it's like almost a betrayal. It's like, I thought you liked me. It has nothing to do with me and I know this, but it's it being human. I, I, I feel like it's a betrayal. Yeah. Right, right. And, and so

Dave: I think

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: how do we fix a curriculum that's broken?

Dave: I look, weird 'cause I look at this from a very libertarian perspective in the sense we are, I think education should really be a county by county, state by state solution. Meaning that each

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Hmm.

Dave: each state has their own education system. Plain and simple. It's like people living in Alabama don't need the same education they have in Montana.

ation as Michigan. Different [: 00:39:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: different everything. It's like, I think

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: And then

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: lackluster

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I,

Dave: you, you're just making everybody sick. Sorry. Ugh,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: no, it's, yeah, it's, it's a very frustrating.

Dave: how much it makes you,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Well, you know, I'm, I'm in it and I just try to survive on a daily basis. But I mean, I, I, I can only do so much, and if I sit down and if I allow it to boil me, then I'll just, I'll just go, I, I'll just go crazy. So I just deal with it the best way that I can.

a state by state, county by [: 00:40:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Well, um, well, I mean, New York State does have its own education system, doesn't it? Am I wrong in that? Like we have the New York State Regents exams and you know, um, I. I, I think I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. But, um, that would probably be good. I'm thinking if I, I honestly don't know.

I honestly don't know.

Dave: Like,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I, I think it would probably make things a little bit mm-hmm. Go ahead.

ies. They have two different [: 00:41:00

Completely different. But to your point, right, New York and New Jersey have very similar systems. They have pretty like, you know, with the Regency and they, kind of the same. Now what I'm trying to get at is right, I understand that they're right next to each other. You could literally drive from Teaneck, New Jersey. To New York, like in a car, and

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: than an hour.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: different communities, different vibes, different, you know what I'm

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: what I'm trying to get

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: you can't expect everybody to fall. That's, that's a thing too, is right. Can you imagine walking into a gallery and every single painting is exactly the same.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Oh, that's so dull and boring.

Dave: in this country.

tiate in terms of, you know, [: 00:42:00

I don't know. I don't know how to solve this issue.

Dave: Now. No, you know, it, it's, it's nice to be able to like see it from an outside box and be

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

world. I'm going to make the [: 00:43:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: imagination at the same time, because like you, you can't really change the world. You can't really, you can only do what you can do. You are only

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree. That's why I just, uh, I just, yeah, I just always do the best that I can. There, there's nothing else that can be done at this point. And um, if you want to think about it, I'm doing the best I can. One student at a time. How about that?

ook out, um, I. I think that [: 00:44:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: you put your mind to something and actually made something of it. Like, are you, do you have plans of writing anything else in the future?

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I do, I do. I'm actually working on a few different projects. Um, I just signed on to be part of an anthology, which I'm looking forward to. Um,

Dave: That's

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: yeah. Um, thanks. Yeah. I, I am working on a second novel that doesn't have anything to do with depression, like my first novel. But, um, it is something that is, um, close to my experience.

but we are, we are fraternal.[: 00:45:00

Dave: That's

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, um, I'm working on that.

And also I did have a blog, um, that was called, uh, Kathy's Cross, A Depressive Positive Perspective. And it was just all about how, um, I wanted to look at the positive perspective of things that had, um, depressed me and the things that had brought me down. And, um, I decided to take that off. The internet so that I can take all of those blog posts and turn it into a book slash journal.

Dave: It's

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: so I'm, I'm working. Yeah, thanks. So I'm working on those three projects currently. Oh, I'm busy. I try.

Dave: see what I mean, like you, you're literally like exactly to the point, right? Where you sometimes have, and I, I've had this too, where you have like this idea, like especially like a blog you know, you

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

t project for something else,[: 00:46:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. Right. And I, and I hadn't thought of it like that. Um, but uh, at some point I was just like, you know what, this would really be good as journal entries. Like, you know, where somebody looks at it and they can reflect on it. Oops. They can reflect on it and then write their own, um, entries. And I, and I thought that it, that it was a really good idea.

So I'm, I'm really, I'm really pleased with that. I'm pretty proud of myself for that. Yeah.

Dave: like, I have this journal, I, I should be writing more in it, but I got this journal a

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: It was written by this business coach where, and this is the reason why I love this thing so much, instead of just having where like the stupid day-to-day crap and whatever. It like, just gives you like, just stuff to write down.

Like they'll say like, um, what's something right now in your life that's inspiring you right now?

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Dave: Yeah, I

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: And then you just start writing and then you got a whole paragraph

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

hat, that kind of stuff just [: 00:47:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: I think like

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dave: that stuff out and just get it written down so like you could physically see it

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Right.

Dave: to it. Maybe even on your phone, you know, like I have an out an

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah.

Dave: have notes, you just open it up and just write it

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah. And it helps you, not only helps you figure the stuff out in your brain, but you know, it helps you process your feelings about certain things. And, and you know, if you, if you read a prompt that says, you know, what's inspiring, inspiring you right now, you may not have thought about that at all that day.

Maybe you're having a really crappy day in the, of a sudden. You see the prompt, what inspires you, and now you're not having a crappy day because now you're thinking about something that makes you happy and you've just turned your negative day into something that could be really positive. So that's really important.

I have to say you are just. [: 00:48:00

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yay.

Dave: I like, 'cause you know, the, the cool thing is like every artist has a story, but

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: some that have grit, there's some that are raw. There's some of them like gives you, you know, like that avantgarde, you know, like noir and.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: You are definitely filling all of those boxes. 100%.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: yeah. Thank you.

Dave: of course.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yay.

Dave: Um, I was gonna ask you, I know you've got a website. I know you got social media. Um, I know your

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: Uh, where is the best place to find you? I.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: So I just got a website. So, um, I've been working on this website for, for many months and it's actually catalina ju.com and on that website you can see, you know, what, um, what my, my, you could purchase my book from there. And there are also other things that I, I created, um, based on characters from my book.

Um, you can learn all about [: 00:49:00

Dave: Love that. And

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: on your website that there is an option to get an autograph copy.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yes, there is. Yes, there is. Um, yeah, and that would be directly from me. You, you can't get that one from Amazon.

Dave: Uh, you know what I'm gonna do? I usually, uh, put these up in a substack. I will put a link if you want an autograph copy of the box. that right? The box?

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah, the box.

Dave: Yeah. So anybody that gets the emails or checks

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Thank you.

Dave: you'll be able to get an autograph. Come on. You know, you get, get rid for

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yay.

Dave: Amy, get back

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yes.

Dave: on there.

Oh, it's beautiful.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: I love that. Thank you. Yes.

Dave: Listen, I have to say thank you so much for coming on and like, just being open and, and just, it's hard to talk about this, you know, like.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: [: 00:50:00

Dave: I've definitely struggled with this. You've definitely struggled with and just being able to have that awareness, especially like with education and being able to write and figuring out things in your life like this is important.

It is. It's really important to,

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Yeah,

Dave: open up about these things.

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me on. I really, um, I really enjoyed this conversation.

Dave: My pleasure. Well listen to

Cathelina Duvert, THE BOX: Mm-hmm.

Dave: out there. Uh, if you want to check out more of Lost in the Groove, you can find us a lost in the Groove Pod. And of course, you could find us everywhere, um, including Rumble, and we are on Substack. So with that, will catch you on the next one. All right. Peace out. Yeah. Okay.