Episode 225
#225 - Interview with film maker Summer Shelton
In this episode, I sat down with award-winning filmmaker Summer Shelton. to talk about the heart and grit behind independent filmmaking. From growing up on a rural sheep farm in North Carolina and experioening the outdoors. Eventually leading to producing films screened at Cannes and Sundance.
Summer shared her incredible journey on how she took a leap during the pandemic. Debuting her film "You & I" a groundbreaking film. Where she handled the writing, editing, directing and producing. The film made on a micro-budget with a 10-person crew, tells a raw, intimate love story. About two people in middle age rediscovering each other over one weekend. It’s a film about timing, vulnerability, and the spaces we carry within.
We also got into the shifting landscape of film and television. How miniseries blur the lines between movies and TV. In away there the unsung heroes behind the scenes. From production designers to casting directors and the actors hired. Summer spoke candidly about the grind of indie filmmaking. The creative trade-offs, and the resilience required to keep creating. If you're curious about how art, intention, and tight budgets collide to create movie magic, this one’s for you.
Be sure to check more of Summer's films and projects with website and her socials provided below:
https://www.summershelton.com/
@s_d_s
We have a magical link below with all our socials and handle so you can find us on your favorite pod spot 🤟.
Transcript
Summer Shelton
on a scout up in that area to learn what the area looked like. And we went through suffering, I remember, and stopped and had a very lovely um dinner at this very great Mexican restaurant.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Um, oh, I know you're talking about it's um it's right next to a CVS. It's like a
::Summer Shelton
Maybe it's right downtown, right in the little main street. um It's like there's a little main street area with a slight incline before you go up in the more rural areas. And it's just a very um cozy place.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
it's um It's a really interesting place because it was originally built by blue collar, a lot of blue collar and primarily immigrants.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, my dad was an immigrant from Morocco. He lived in Brooklyn and then my parents moved out to Rockland County.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um And it was kind of cool because my dad, you know, he used to interact with like, ah um you know, he did plumbing and heating. So he used to have people that were Ecuadorian, ah that were Puerto Rican.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And a lot of them, like their grandfather was born there, you know, so there was already like generations that were being developed.
::Summer Shelton
Oh, wow. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
That that's something that's so heartwarming, right? Because I know as like a filmmaker, sometimes when you put yourself in those like films of where, you know, it's a dynamic between two people, you know, and you're in this like small setting.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Those that part of that environment plays a key role in that story and how it progresses, you know, and how you as the audience interacts with it. Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
and him
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And I like being able to live through that and then see that on film is just amazing because I could put those two parallels together.
::Summer Shelton
and her Yeah, I mean, I think... I always try to teach or or at least approach a story as if the place is its own character because it is. It does have its own life and its own energy and um it definitely affects the people that are in the film and the characters because, I mean, we're all affected by the weather and what we have access to, what we don't have access to how we get to and fro.
::Summer Shelton
informs you know our daily lives so I definitely try to you know remember that it is you know a place where you know people live it's you know
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It is, and it's so ah so heartwarming because sometimes some of like really great films, the story doesn't really add up or make any sense.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But it's like the the environment that's, I'm like, I'm a Quentin Tarantino fan, you know, and I ah love like Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Pulp Fiction makes no sense as a story at all from start to finish.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But it's the character development. It's like the different scenes that you're going through, like, you know when they're sitting in the diner, when they're in the room. And like you said, like almost the environment is the story that you're watching.
::Summer Shelton
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Absolutely. I mean, production designers, I think, I mean, i think slowly some of their work is coming to the forefront. And I know that when there's amazing production design, you kind of quote unquote, don't notice it because it creates such a real place that it's not distracting, distracting, it all blends in perfectly.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
no
::Summer Shelton
But that's when, you know, the work of a great artist of a production designer, and that's what they are. I mean, they bring the spaces to life, whether they build the sets, or they walk into someone's home and, you know, dress it, change paint, for whatever reason, everything they do has a motivation. So when you're watching a film, and look at a painting that they put on the wall or what kind of wallpapers in a room or why that couch or why that lamp.
::Summer Shelton
It was all a choice um by the artists and kind of diving into the skin of the characters to create this place that looks so lived in. and And I think there's such true, amazing special artists, our production designers, because they're such, they're amazing They're jack of all trades beyond belief.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, they could build anything, recreate anything, paint, dress, do anything. But then they also have a very artistic mind to be able to understand and the breadth of knowledge that they have between like period pieces and, you know, what kind of clothes people wore working with the costume designer, everything.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, that that that gets lost so easily.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
There's a lot of like I'm not there's a lot of stuff, so it's hard to name. But there's a lot of productions that are period based, you know, like in the 70s or 80s.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
an looks a little too new for: ::Summer Shelton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like that, you know, chev show um like Chevy Citation.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like, yeah, somebody restored that. Like, you know, that's not new car.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But they're like those elements of those shows where you're you know, it's a period piece, but it almost feels modern.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like you're watching it and like the characters, they kind of dress and look similar to how we look. But it's still the 70s. Like you still have those cars, but like they're not as new and run, you know, because like these people are either like poor or whatever the case may be.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But like you feel more present. That's what i'm trying to get at.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You feel more present and you resonate with the story a lot better.
::Summer Shelton
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think so, too. It's I mean, it's why it takes a village to make a film. You know, it takes so many different artists. I know that a lot of times you just hear about the director or the actors and but it takes a huge village of people to pull off this feat of, you know, recreating a world. So I think it's amazing when there's so many big crews that come together to do it. And I think it's equally amazing when you hear about a film made with, you know, a skeleton crew of like 10 people and do it. So either way, it's quite a feat.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It is. and it's I think what's really fascinating is when you take the idea of a book or a story, you know, you can go even as far as a play.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And when it's adapted to a film, a lot of the times have this on jumping, like, why isn't it like the book? You know, like, why are there so many differences? i think it's because when you have a book, you know, you're reading and you're kind of creating the story in your head.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And like you've mentioned, it takes a village to be able to make these films and TV shows.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
So when you have to take that story and adapt it to film, yeah artists have to think out of the box like, OK, this writer explained the couch in 10 sentences.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
We're not going to have a scene where we're staring at a couch for 35 seconds.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean, as cool as that sounds, it doesn't really line up with the story. You see where I'm going with this? So there has to be like that almost adaptability where it's still the story, but it's a different adaptation of how it's being told.
::Summer Shelton
yeah
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, that's why it's an adaptation. I mean, you know, you can sit and read a book for five, eight hours, you're not going watch that much of a film and only get to, you know, you know, the middle of it.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you
::Summer Shelton
So I mean, um most films average anywhere from 90 minutes to two hours and a half these days. And A lot of books and things to have such multiple storylines. You know, I think you really have to, quote, kill your darlings when you're adapting books because you can't have everything in it. So that's when you start to combine characters or some characters don't exist in the movie that were in the book. You just don't have enough.
::Summer Shelton
what I call screen real estate to have everyone live in the story that you put on screen. But that's why, that's why we have books. That's why we have movies. They're different art forms and they give the, uh, uh, the person a different experience when they go through it. I mean, there's definitely times when I'm like, Oh yeah, I'd like to read a book.
::Summer Shelton
And there's definitely times I'm like, i'd I'd like to watch a movie. So I think that they all can exist together for sure. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They do. in We've had, i would say, like the past couple of years, and you probably have a lot more better knowledge and understanding of this, is TV shows changing now to kind of being more of a movie format, you know, where they have now limited series or TV shows where you have 10 episodes and they're each an hour.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
So technically it's an eight hour and film
::Summer Shelton
and here and
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But it is, i say this so many times, it's like a double edge of the sword. Because you can put so much crap in there. Like, Book of Boba Fett is a great example. Like, Disney's kind of done that. And it's just so much...
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's like I kind of wish they just made the movie instead of giving me 10 episodes over and over again and doing this. And then there are those stories that do like American Primeval is a great example of this on Netflix.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They have a limited series and it's a movie and you're watching back to back. But there's a start. There's a finish. It's cohesive. It works well. There's kind of history there.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It. It works, but I feel like that medium is so difficult that people just don't understand.
::Summer Shelton
here
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like if you don't nail it well enough and like iron it out, you can destroy something so beautiful in just like that.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, it's, I think miniseries are ah They are their own beast. And, you know, it's, it's tough because you have to think about the arc of the entire experience, not just within each episode, but like, where do you want to leave people? Where do you want to pick up with them?
::Summer Shelton
How do you keep them staying with you and remembering what's happening and but yet still want to binge to, you know, next episode or come back next week, so to speak. And especially today, you know, audiences don't have the same type of, um I think, mental bandwidth or patience rather to, you know, give things a chance. Whereas like when I was growing up, you know, you just had five channels, things were on for 30 minutes or an hour.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You were limited.
::Summer Shelton
And you were limited. You had like five options. You know, and on a good day, I would have five options. Most days I would have four. And then the one that the antenna couldn't get, you know, the channel that great.
::Summer Shelton
So um you didn't have as many options.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
no I mean, like, you had, like...
::Summer Shelton
So. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
it I think the love boat was like something like close to 50 minutes, but i think it was like 45 minutes or something like that. There were, but it was still, even in the nineties, it was still very limited. You didn't have anything that stretched more than an hour.
::Summer Shelton
Oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, what is it like?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like 60 was like the cap.
::Summer Shelton
21, 23 minutes of TV for a 30 minute show back then. Cause you know, gotta have your commercial breaks and everything and wiggle in all those.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
And you think about when that happens in the series too and stuff. So it's a lot of mental gymnastics that goes into, I think, bringing content of any format to an audience member and, you know, kudos to people that can pull it off, even if it's good, bad, however you want to look at it, just the,
::Summer Shelton
the ability and the tenacity to just do it is its own kind of win in my, in my book. Cause it does take so much hard work.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I 100% agree with you. And I think like you take somebody like Ben Stiller, which is a director, and he was also an actor, you know, and now he's made a television series like Severance, which is a great example of doing that long phase of a movie and doing it really, really well.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's like the first season compared to the second season.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It feels like you're going through chapters and chapters of a book.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, and like you can almost like have like the narrator, you know, it's like you're like you're basically going through an audible, but it's a visual audible. i I don't again, like I'm not saying it's an easy feat.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But like to your point as well, it can be done, you know you have to like take into the idea of like how do we gravitate towards the audience? you know How do we keep this story flowing and cohesive and keeping the character dynamics working well?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And it's a hard feat, but I think again, like that is what filmmaking takes it into account.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You need to have that mind, you need to be collaborative and you need to be open with artists, not just business people coming along, accountants, you know, producers, like everybody's gotta get on board regardless of if this is a money project or an art project.
::Summer Shelton
her
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, because I mean, the creative team needs the support of everyone around them. Everyone needs to be on the same page of knowing what's being made so you can enable people to do their best work.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
If they're constantly getting mixed messages because people don't really understand what's happening, then that's very difficult. You know, it's, it's nice when everyone can go in excited and on the same page. That's why, like, I, I truly feel that anything you get to make three times. I mean, you make things in prep or you prepare for it. You're making it there. You make it when you shoot it and you make it when you edit it.
::Summer Shelton
So even still all those three times that you're making a moving, you know, series of film, anything, you're making it multiple times and you have to treat each part of that process with this own unique needs.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You have to.
::Summer Shelton
Mm
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's um and something really special that we have as human beings that we're capable and able to do. And i i think that when you know you take like where we had the writer's strike and you had artists that were protesting, yeah, there was a lot of like mixed emotions and feelings going in with that.
::Summer Shelton
and you had artists that were protesting, yeah there was a lot of like mix emotions and feelings going in with that but at the end of the day when you controlling the narrative where movies have to align more to what society and norms are in reality here's here's the take it's a movie it's a tv show it's story
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But end the day, when you start controlling the narrative where movies have to align more to what society and norms are in reality, here's here's the tea.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's a movie. It's a TV show. It's a story. Some stories will have sexual implements in them. Some of them will be very dark. Some of them will be satirical. Some stories...
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
will have those elements where racism needs to play into account. Whatever the the case may be, it's like, if you cannot let artists be artists and be able to create, what we end up is what we've been dealing with for the past five years is just absolute garbage, one after the other.
::Summer Shelton
is the with the past five years just absolute garbage. One after the other. And it's like, I'm not the only that complains with it.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And it's like, I'm not the only one that complains about this.
::Summer Shelton
It's like, I don't even want to go to the movie theater.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like, I don't even want to go to the movie theater anymore. Like, why waste your time when you know that these writers and artists are not being given the opportunity to create what they really want to be making?
::Summer Shelton
Like, why waste your time when you know that these writers and artists not being given opportunity create what they really want to be making?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Because these producers like, well, if you do that, then nobody's going to want to watch it because, like, it's going against the side.
::Summer Shelton
Because these like, if you do that, then nobody's going to want to watch it because, like, it's going against
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like, who cares?
::Summer Shelton
Who cares? Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not the only one that feels like this. I know that.
::Summer Shelton
Well, I think um maybe you should look at going to at different theaters. so Because there's a lot of theaters out there that are
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You're right, right.
::Summer Shelton
um promoting work where there's, you know, yeah, and in and yeah independent art house theaters where producers are driving project from development to production and bringing forth people to fulfill, you know, and tell a beautiful story.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
like independent independent films and stuff like that yeah
::Summer Shelton
And they're doing it outside of the mainstream and outside of these studio pressures. So it's, you know, creative career producers that are out there you know, finding material and saying like, I want to bring this to a screen and finding a director or a writer director coming to a producer and being like, Hey,
::Summer Shelton
you know, i want to make this, you know, you want to come on for the ride and the producer being like, yeah, this is amazing. Let's go for it. and And I mean, these are people that put anywhere from, you know, one to 20 years trying to get a film made and some even more. and um you know, I think those are the people that really believe in the material, anyone that's willing to, you know, figure promote and really like grind to make something come true for that long of time has a passion about it. And it's very different than, you know, um I don't really come from the studio world, so I can't really speak to the inner workings of it as much, but there is a freedom to it, even though know,
::Summer Shelton
independent film, even though there's a lot of financial constraints and there's a lot of constraints in terms of opportunities. And it's just really freaking hard. um But at least you do have the artistic freedom that a little bit more, which is what I enjoy about projects is I like to be, ah like to do projects where, you know, either writer direct there's a director that may have written the story or even if they're not just has some type of personal connection to the material because you know that it's going to be coming from a place of truth or earnestness and understanding and so those are those are things that I think you can feel a difference of when it's
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
100%. I know.
::Summer Shelton
when it's something that's made with such passion and heart versus something that might've been, you know, put through the rooms ah several hundred times with 4,000 different notes coming from five different directions.
::Summer Shelton
And, you know, everyone's giving um notes and, you know, we could have probably made like 12 more things with the rounds of notes that everyone's put through.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
ah know
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
it It really comes down to like to your point where when it comes to indie filmmaking and the underground scene, you know you run into those people – we were talking about this earlier – period pieces where you find this you know quaint town that's like just great place to film shoot.
::Summer Shelton
So know, downtown that's just a great place
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know And you find this really cool mechanic shop that already restores old cars, and you know you build a connection with those people in the town.
::Summer Shelton
you find this really cool mechanic shop that ready for stores, like cars, and, know, you build with You know, you this old diner that's been, like, you know, now grandkids run and like, oh, you want shoot
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, and you find this old diner that's been like, you know, now the grandkids run the place. And they're like, oh cool. You want to shoot here? Sure. And some of these films, they're very low budget, you know, under $175,000, even maybe under $100,000 from start to finish.
::Summer Shelton
Some these films, they're very low budget, you know, under $175,000, so you can make it under $100,000 for a short
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But it still feels like it was made in the 80s. Like i was saying earlier, like it's modern,
::Summer Shelton
Or one.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
but You can do a lot of that today also because of the advancement of technology. I mean, when you get into the editing room these days, you used to need a team of like 25 people.
::Summer Shelton
he
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Now you can have a team of three, you know, maybe two working together or just a whole one.
::Summer Shelton
yeah
::Summer Shelton
or one
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Definitely. I mean, and I think people want it. I mean, look at, you know, the success of, you know, someone in the independent film industry this year that's really kind of a, you know, a person to be celebrated for their journey over decades making films like that.
::Summer Shelton
And, you know, Sean Baker Enora, I think, is a great example of how, you and a filmmaker with such indie roots and his early, his films do exactly what you just talked about. I mean, you look at all his early words and he still implores that technique and what he does today.
::Summer Shelton
he you know, just might have a little bit more money here and there to play with. And now probably I'm hopefully we'll have, you know, some bigger budgets and different things to give him more resources to just keep going for it. But he's never lost his,
::Summer Shelton
sense of you know the kind of stories he tells and how he tells them. He's a true artist and you know I think he's very aspirational for a lot of filmmakers right now because you know people that are in the in the indie understand and know where he comes from.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Thank you.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, he's still he still, edits his films. He writes, he edits. He does a lot of his own casting, you know, and he's done this, like, I think his first film was made with two people.
::Summer Shelton
I'm going produce you know, and it can be done. And it's just about the tenacity and willing to do it. And, you know, i think those are the type of artists and filmmakers that we should really start learning and and celebrating a bit more um and saying their name out loud so that people know who they are and know them very frequently.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I was going to ask you, ah have you ah have you watched the film Substance? I
::Summer Shelton
Yes. Yes.
::Summer Shelton
Yes.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
i have to say, like, first off, I don't think Demi Moore got enough. commemoration for her role. You know, the thing is, it' like it's sometimes so hard to respect like celebrities.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
like We were talking about just like what goes on in the industry and like there's that nicety that comes into the respect for artists and the project and people surrounding yourself making these films.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But when you have a person like that that had been mutilated and destroyed by Hollywood for years and she says, you know what? Nah. I'm going to do what I want.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And she did it beautifully. Like, I felt terrified. I felt connected. Like, and do you think she got any commemoration for that?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No, of course not.
::Summer Shelton
Well, I mean, she won a golden globe. You know, you can't. you don't want to like, yeah I wouldn't turn my nose up of that and an Academy Award nomination. mean, those are all big things. I think that, I think there's definitely, you know, there is a, there is a storyline, you know, that, you know, she didn't win.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
So therefore, you know, she didn't get the glory, but I think with someone like her, um You know, just like when she gave in her speeches and things, you know, the work is the win and the work is the win.
::Summer Shelton
And and that's at the end of the day, no one's going to take that away from her and and from the director.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh, yeah.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, what a beautiful Like, that's not necessarily a genre that I go for and everything, but I watched it and was just fascinated from opening scene to the end of like, wow, this person had a vision and from start to finish.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Who was...
::Summer Shelton
And you can go online and get the script and look at it. And the script is even written in a very non-traditional way where, you know, some of the sound effects, you know, are written in big, bold letters. So it very much breaks tradition, even on the written page, if you look at that script. and And I think that, I think it also said something too about maybe the wave in which audiences are getting excited by, i don't want to say that Demi's story is a comeback story because she never went away.
::Summer Shelton
Like she's she's always been doing, you know, work and things.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No
::Summer Shelton
And I think as, mm-hmm,
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But I I think to your point though is It's a stepping stone because there's a lot more eyes now on the underground scene regards to indie films and even with music
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And again, i I think the Internet plays a very key role in this, but I think a lot of people are tired. It's not that people don't have the intention span. It's people are tired of bullshit.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's where, you know, you take like, for example, my mom grew up in New York in the 70s.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
She has zero idea of what danger is, even though she grew up in one of the most dangerous cities of the time. It's just attitudes and progression change. And awareness also plays in the key role.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Playing a film like that is very vulnerable, you know, like regardless for anybody, you know, and there are a lot of those horror and psychological indie films that does that.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They bring those people in like Demi Moore, maybe people that are a little bit more not as famous, but
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
bring them into those stories and you see that element that they, she could have done this any time in her career, but she did this with an independent filmmaker.
::Summer Shelton
and And I think by doing it now, it's all I think it's all about timing. I think that's the one thing.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yes.
::Summer Shelton
I think that's the one thing that's very difficult as an artist and even just as a human is that's the one thing you can't control. And that is really the one thing that I think defines.
::Summer Shelton
most things in our life is just the timing in which things happen, like getting the right script at the right time. I mean, we can have a conversation at Demi Moore the same way you could have a conversation about, you know, Pamela Anderson, you know, and watching her in the last Showgirl.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, we didn't necessarily hear as much about that film as the substance, but she's doing the work too. And, you know, she's been on Broadway and, you know, she she took control of her own narrative.
::Summer Shelton
And i think that's what we have to look at is people that are willing to take that chance and and take more take the chance on themselves. And like you say, just say, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do it under these terms. And I think that's where i think that's where kind of some of the true artistry kind of really shines and you can see it on screen.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
i I think that's almost where we get that grandfathering in, where you see those successful filmmakers, directors, you know, like the list goes on, like, you know, Quentin Tarantino, Wes Anderson, for example, um Scorsese.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But they're all grandfathered in to the point where they can. Quentin Tarantino decided tomorrow to make a transvestite movie about flamingo dancers going to Miami. He could make it right now and nobody would have any.
::Summer Shelton
Well, also, also all those are men.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right. You know, like the thing about it is, is that there are people that have that ability. But what I'm trying to get at is that just because it took somebody like 30 or 40 years to get there doesn't mean everybody has to go through that same process.
::Summer Shelton
No. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You can establish yourself as as a filmmaker that this is what you make.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
This is what you collaborate. and This is what you create, like regardless of what people think, you know, because a lot of times like, well, are people going to judge me? You know, like, are people goingnna respect my work?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's like. Is this what you want to do? is this what you want to make? Is this what you're gravitating towards?
::Summer Shelton
Well, I think that's the difference of, you know, when you decide why you want to make something like, are you making it to just put some trophies on your shelves and put money in the bank? And if so, that's fine.
::Summer Shelton
You know, that can be someone's motive. But, um you know, I think there's a difference when some work is coming from a place of someone's heart and intention and without necessary regard to all those things that you mentioned in terms of what will other people think.
::Summer Shelton
um I think if any time in life, you know, going through and having to ask yourself what other people think, it's very exhausting and can dilute humans and can dilute art real quick. So I try not to, um, I'm not going to lie. Of course, in my younger days, I definitely thought about it, but as I get older, it's definitely something that becomes a least priority to me is like, what do other people think?
::Summer Shelton
Um, It's more about the intention of why you do something and why you had to do it and felt the need to spend so much time and hard and be so vulnerable about it. I'm sure that, you know, I i i couldn't imagine what necessarily how that script got to Demi, but I'm sure when she read it, there was some connections in it that she was like, damn, you know, I can...
::Summer Shelton
I know this woman and that's what drew to the material.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Thank you.
::Summer Shelton
And, you know, that's I think that's what, too, makes her performance shine so well as you can see it. You know, even just when she's walking and that she does that walking shot so many times in the film.
::Summer Shelton
I'm sure they did so many different takes, but every time they cut to that, she has a different perspective. feeling and because she's tracked that character's progression and everything and you know in those scenes where she's not even saying things she's just putting on that coat and walking down that street in LA and it's like whoa you know what she's feeling and in every footstep and she nails it every time
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's almost where the character is the actor. There are stories and films you watch. you know like I could think of even Taxi Driver.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know i can't think of another person to play that actor, then like you know Robert De Niro.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
it It's just like when you see it, you're like, wow, okay, like get that that like lines up just so perfectly.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um i
::Summer Shelton
Again, casting directors, another unsung hero of the filmmaking world, casting directors. exer These are the true treasure hunters, you know, um being able to look at a list of names and be like, oh, wait, no, look here, think about this, or you should really look at this person and stuff. like That's an art form as well to...
::Summer Shelton
see and be able to do that. And, and, you know, that's also in, you know, agents and managers, you know, know their clients and taste and can see things. And um that's exciting. I think that's the fun part is I call it like the dream phase is like dreaming what it's going to look like, you know, who's going to be in it? What does it look like? I personally like to write things with people in mind. It just helps me When I write on a page, think about someone's body moving in an image or something. It just it helps me to kind of go into dreamland a little bit. Having someone's kind of face in my head or voice, more more specifically, a voice is very helpful to me.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah ah well While you were where you were talking about that, I i got, I think it's MAM. You remember it came out in 74 with Lucille Ball and I had Bea Arthur.
::Summer Shelton
Oh, no, I haven't seen it.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
and It is one of those films that we were talking about, like casting, you know, the casting actors to be able to play these roles. Just whoever thought it was genius to put Lucille Ball and be Arthur in the same.
::Summer Shelton
okay
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh, my God, because like you have like these two actors that are beautiful.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, I'd love to be in that room. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They're dominant women. Like Lucille Ball was the dominant woman in the film industry.
::Summer Shelton
he
::Summer Shelton
two
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And you have like Bea Arthur, which is everybody heard Bea Arthur. All right. Like she's a tall grandma that if you know you do something bad, you in real trouble.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, she's a sassy lady.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like you she is so sassy.
::Summer Shelton
i feel like i feel like that's half of the answer to one of those questions. is Like, oh, if you get to have, you know, your last meal with four people, who would it be? Like, I'm sure a lot of people would put those two people at the same table.
::Summer Shelton
Luzo Ball and Bea Arthur, that sounds like a good dinner party.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It is. And I like, you know, the other twist of things like even in that spectrum is like you take somebody like even Audrey Hepburn.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Which is literally the complete opposite of what Lucille Ball and Bea Arthur is. But in reality, she was a very strong woman and very like stern and disciplined
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
but at the same time, very soft, very confident, very strong. And there are actors like that where, even if they don't talk, the the expression on their face, like we were talking about, you know, Demi Moore just walking with the coat.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
That is the script.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They are in a way like betraying parts of the script. that It's just, it's amazing when actors are able to just do that without any words.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I also, too, think it's something that, you know, um you know women have... fought a lot against too is the association that femininity by having it or being of a certain feminine, you know, outward presenting type of woman that you are weak or soft. And and that's not true at all.
::Summer Shelton
um And that I don't think a woman's strength can be measured by what you see on the outside of her. Like, and there's all, there's women, whether in six inch stilettos or, you know, Birkenstocks, no matter what shoes they're walking in, I can tell you there, they probably have a complex life story ah and worth seeing on screen probably. So I think that's something too, that like is,
::Summer Shelton
Sadly, still part of the conversation is is people sometimes, like you say, being surprised.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Sadly, so far.
::Summer Shelton
It's like, oh, and, you know, I wouldn't imagine her in that role or like, oh, this so wild. Like when people do the hard 180 in their career every once in a while, it's like, well, they did it.
::Summer Shelton
Like, look at them. They got
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I think that also brings um an element of change, because when you start working on a new film or a new idea, and this person's also going through the like new stage of progress and also change—
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you you end up like almost like birthing like this incredible baby. you know that that just The story just flows from there.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And I think like a big part of storytelling is not just you know film from a to B.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
but it's how the story interacts. Like there is such a deep magic that goes on with films. It's, you know, you could throw in $50 million dollars worth of CGI and look where like the Marvel production is now.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like it's not what makes films great. It's not like, you know, just massive ass budgets. We've, we realize this now, like you, you can make a film for very little and it's,
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
wow
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. so it's Some of it it can be very beautiful. I mean, definitely, I don't think your budget determines your level of artistry by any means. I mean, not at all. I think that you know, i constantly have to go up against people. It's like, oh, well, you your movies are just so small.
::Summer Shelton
And I hear that word a lot. It's like, they're small. Or you make these small movies. And I'm like, just because the budget's small, I mean, when you watch them on an iPhone or on a theater screen, I think it's the same size that you're watching a lot of those other movies on.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
a lot of ah A lot of these small films we're talking about are on Apple TV right now.
::Summer Shelton
You know? Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
That's right. I mean, that's the one advantage of this whole access, but being able to exit have your film have accessibility.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I...
::Summer Shelton
I mean, talk about a blessing and a curse is that accessibility and the saturation of the market. But you're right. um They are there. I think that the biggest thing is just trying to...
::Summer Shelton
encourage publicists, PR, marketing firms, news outlets to devote time to spotlighting those hidden gems. And instead of like, you know, covering the same movie for two weeks that are, it's already going to have its huge awards campaign and things.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
instead of like, you know, covering the same for two that already a two-door thing. like, where about the investigative reporter of, you know, there to swear it.
::Summer Shelton
It's like, what are, what those other hidden gems? Like, I'm, I'm excited about the, the investigative reporter of, you know, indie film.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like the old days Blockbuster, I was going to be the most obscure, people who knew it was possible.
::Summer Shelton
It's like someone's out there just literally like, It's like the old days of Blockbuster. I would go in and dig through the bins wanting to find like the most obscure, most, ah you know, indie looking movie possible, you know, like, ooh, this looks interesting or wild or just like ah different.
::Summer Shelton
And, you know, it would be nice for those type of films to also get the same type of you know, publicity so that people can find them. Like, I don't think it's that people don't want them.
::Summer Shelton
I just don't think they know how to find them a lot. And um so I think that sometimes audiences get a bad rap because, oh, nobody wants to see this.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I,
::Summer Shelton
I'm like, well, do they know what's out there?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I think, though, like Apple, it's strange that I'm even saying this because like Apple is really not a good company in any shape or form. they're pretty They're pretty evil when you go down to its core.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But it's really bizarre where when it comes to indie filmmaking and indie like music production, there's pretty much like this open platform where they have allowed like now some of the top shows that are on Apple
::Summer Shelton
But it's really bizarre where when it comes to indie filmmaking and indie music production, it's pretty much this open plot where they allowed, like, you of the top shows are on Apple are all on indie film.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
are all indie film. They're all made by indie filmmakers and producers and directors.
::Summer Shelton
all made by indie filmmakers producers and directors.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um i maybe it's yeah I wouldn't say it's coming for out of the goodness of their heart.
::Summer Shelton
I think it's, I wouldn't it's coming of the goodness their heart.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I think it's coming out what you're saying is they realize that there's a market here and people are tired of the other crap.
::Summer Shelton
it's coming of the savings that there's market. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, I mean, I think that, I think slowly, think that, you know, think places might are slowly trying to, you know, take a play from the A24 book, who is a distributor that's like, really define themselves.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
And they define themselves by being volt bold, and risk taking and singular vision.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
they've Yeah. They've had films with crazy budgets.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, but they've also had like not so crazy budgets too.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean like...
::Summer Shelton
And they take they risk on emerging on first time, second time filmmakers or maybe like taking that first time filmmaker and giving them a nice budget.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah. oh yeah. Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Like saying like, oh, this person has something to say. Like what if we gave them all these toys, what and what would their sandbox look like? Right? Like go for it.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I know what you're talking about.
::Summer Shelton
Like like that would be nice.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
i would I would like to be in that sandbox. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
and the um There's one show that I got hooked on. um i think ah It's made by A24. I think it's ah Slow Horses.
::Summer Shelton
oh I know of that yeah I haven't seen it though yeah yeah
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
to
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And like, it's just made really well. And I went online just curious to see how much the budget was. And it was just like, Really? that That's pretty low.
::Summer Shelton
yeah
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
they They really, like to your point, it's like yeah almost like survival of the fittest at its best shape or form. It's weird like...
::Summer Shelton
But that was Apple.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Was it Apple?
::Summer Shelton
I think it was Apple. i could be, I'm not going to play Vegas, but um I might would um double down. I wouldn't go all in on my guess here, but I think it might've been Apple.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um Let me let me say No, but there was um there was a few there was another show I was watching that was A24. But what's really interesting like with a lot of these films is they're like limited of the areas that they're in.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And you can clearly see this. Like, I know, especially when you're filming outside, it can be very costly because you're like limited in certain spots.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And you notice that like these filmmakers and like producers, they figure out ways of keeping things on the low. Like they do a lot of things at night, which is genius. You know, and it's like it's still kind of great because you're still like watching the story, and like really not paying attention.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They'll do things on days that are really not busy.
::Summer Shelton
Well, at night's expensive, though. Night...
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Is it really?
::Summer Shelton
Night's crazy expensive. Yeah. I mean, when I made my micro budget movie, that was one rule I had to myself is I will not shoot an exterior night dialogue scene. I can't afford the lights. Like, I mean, if something that shoots at night all the time, that's a big spin.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
That's why, yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Nighttimes take lots of lights, lots of people, lots of machines to make to make night look like something you can turn on your TV and watch. It can get quite costly.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
it cant It can...
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. And what's cheapest is, you know, go stand out in the field and, you know, at 11 at sunrise and give someone a camera because the light will register in the camera, you know, and that, that will work.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Well, I think also, though, it's hard it's hard when you have where you're dealing with the public, too. You have those scenes where you have to record like in public, and you want to make sure nobody's turning around you know and like pulling out their phone.
::Summer Shelton
Oh yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You're like, oh, please don't pull out your phone.
::Summer Shelton
Mm hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Please, please, please, please, please.
::Summer Shelton
Mm hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
ah But I think that's great, too, because you almost wear you don't have a lot of options to take many takes.
::Summer Shelton
hu
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Right? Because ah have you for all very obvious reasons. So you've got to like be very much in the moment. You've got to like be fixed and you'll be like, okay, you ready? Because we're doing this like right now.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I get what you're saying too. It's like each environment comes with its own cost.
::Summer Shelton
Oh, yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It can be very expensive.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It can be very difficult. You can either do a lot of shoots or you can do very little shoots.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You need very expensive equipment or not very expensive equipment.
::Summer Shelton
who
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's a never winning battle.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, like, I mean, there's no perfect scenario, no matter, i mean, even if you have, like, you hear about all these crazy, crazy budgets, but, you know, you don't know so much of that budget goes towards so many different things that are needed, and, um you know, salaries and different things, and
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
::Summer Shelton
some of those special effects do take teams of hundreds of people and stuff. And it's just very difficult. So I think that's why, like, that's what a good producer can do is like, see a piece of material and understand what all it needs and make it happen.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Thank you.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, talk about the unsung heroes is the career producers that actually know how to make movies from soup to nuts that, can make all these things come true. Like that's, you know, I think that's a big misconception about some producers is they're just people that sit in like fancy offices and, and, you know, wear Rolexes and, and that's not my experience at all.
::Summer Shelton
Mm. Mm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You're dealing with people that have basically broke the stone. you know i We don't realize this, but for the past 150 years, our society has decided for us to live an industrial lifestyle.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, great.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
We didn't ask for this.
::Summer Shelton
I've got a lot benefits.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean, it's great. got a lot of benefits.
::Summer Shelton
got a good creation.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
We've got refrigeration.
::Summer Shelton
And there's lot great things.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
We've got heating. yeah There's a lot of great...
::Summer Shelton
But there's been a happy cause that we are almost our humanity has been stripped away from us.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But there's been a heavy cost where almost our humanity has been stripped away from us.
::Summer Shelton
Gone are the days of people where they can be much more philosophical, creative themselves.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Gone of the days of people where they can be much more philosophical, more out of the box, more creative with themselves. And i think almost where there's a resurgence where you can be person that loves what you do, regardless of what corporate and industrial thinking has put into place.
::Summer Shelton
And I think almost where there's resurgence where people
::Summer Shelton
No.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No one's saying it's easy. But you can find that balance.
::Summer Shelton
no
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It just it takes a lot of work. And I think one thing you have to take into account is when you get older, do you want to be the person that waits until you're 64, 65 years old for that greedy, grubby company to give you that pension?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Do you really want to give your life to someone else and expect something in return? Or you can do something on your own to be successful that you don't have to go through. don't have to wait on a line, you know, at the DMV for like five hours.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's always hard, you know, everyone has their own journey and story and reasons why they have to do things. And um um I'm interested in the story of that person that did take to 64 to do what they thought like what an interesting film that would be is someone that did, you know, quote unquote, do what they were supposed to do for all that time and then finally realize what it's about.
::Summer Shelton
You know, that's a very rich story of someone that has a very complex life and conscious about them.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Thank you.
::Summer Shelton
You know, that coming to the moment of self-discovery doesn't have to happen at 21. You know, it doesn't have to happen 33. You know, these things um times in which you're supposed to find out who you are I don't think that we should ah limit people have to do it on a certain timeline.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, maybe I'm just biased because um I made my film it such at such a much longer, older age than a lot of people make first movies or not necessarily, but at least like not, you know, a lot of women might be more apt to make theirs at a later age for a lot of various reasons, but that's a different soapbox.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
::Summer Shelton
But um I wouldn't want to, I don't think I would have wanted to make, I don't think I could have and nor would it have been, quote unquote, any so good if I tried to make a movie 20 years ago. But, you know, I have had to live through moments of, you know, I've worked corporate. I've worked freelance. I've worked independent. I've worked.
::Summer Shelton
The main thing is that I've just had to work. And that's the thing is I didn't have a choice not to, is I always had to work. And that breeds something that when you always have to work and you finally get a moment where you can take time to say what you want to say.
::Summer Shelton
To me, that's what that's a story that we should hear because someone's been sitting and living and breathing it for such long time. That's not something you can like do a Mad Lib in a room somewhere and and win some awards for it.
::Summer Shelton
That's not going to have the substance that we need. No pun, bringing back it to substance. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
i It's so true that you can be successful in any part of your life and
::Summer Shelton
ah hey I'm hoping. I'm hoping.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
he No, but it's honestly true. it's what you It's what you define as successful. It's because you as yourself can be the most incredible person you can be.
::Summer Shelton
That's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
The thing that holds us back the most is ourselves.
::Summer Shelton
That's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, being a successful artist is not necessarily about, like, how great you are. But it's how much of yourself, how much work you're putting in that's coming from you.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, that's like, again, like I'm not trying to give disrespect to, you know, those accountants and ah marketing directors and advertisers.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
They do great jobs, too, but they're not creative thinkers. But they are the type of people that can work coincide with those creative thinkers and take those incredible ideas and monetize them or figure out ways of being able to bring it to a broader audience.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's two different parallels of living your life. It doesn't
::Summer Shelton
I mean, it's, but two, I think it's, I think that we should be careful about saying that people's creativity is only, you know, recognized when we see it happening and they're in their jobs.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, that accountant might go home and go in the garage and paint some pretty amazing photos.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 100% agree.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
100% agree with you. What I was getting at is is that like, just being an artist is not the only route to having a loving and successful life.
::Summer Shelton
No, no.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You can be a person that's an advertiser, and that is something that creatively is something you're passionate about. You can be somebody that is an architect, and that is something that you're creative and passionate about.
::Summer Shelton
hu
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know Electrician, that could also, there's a lot of different things like that.
::Summer Shelton
who
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
But it's not limiting the idea that nobody's creative. Everybody can be creative. You just have to find what you love and what you can put towards your passion towards to make successful.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
And I think it the difference is a lot of those jobs and things that you mentioned, there are very um ah plus and minus of like how the how the task works.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Like, OK, numbers add up to this. And, you know, there might there is a lot of creative account in accounting. Having done accounting, it's a lot of sleuthing, a lot of like money tells stories and marketing.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It is. Moving things around. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. Marketing.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's complicated.
::Summer Shelton
Marketing is like, I mean, I've watched some ads recently, like, you know, remember when we used to look forward to all the Super Bowl ads and, you know, ah that stuff's like super crazy cool.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, yeah. yeah
::Summer Shelton
But also, like you say, I mean, it's um it's just very it's. it's hard when, you know, your creativity can come at different ways. And when you're an artist by what most people think, a writer, a painter, a filmmaker, something like that, the work that we put out there is completely objectionable.
::Summer Shelton
You know, if I'm a good electrician, I can get the lights on and that, that I was good that day, you know, like a good day for me, I got the lights on, you know, a good day for a filmmaker.
::Summer Shelton
I might can get the lights on, but people's like, you know, I just didn't like that color temperature though. Or like, oh, it wasn't the right light bulb, even though it shone light or, you know, there's always an opinion about it, which is fine.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Even though it's not
::Summer Shelton
I think that too goes back to what we started the conversation with about knowing your intention when you make something and put that out there and how to measure it. Like, are you going to feel like you're a failure if someone tells you, well, the light's wrong, you still didn't do a good job but type of situation.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, and it's also about like that collaborative process where you know we're talking about like outside outside scenes, you know and you're talking about really expensive lighting.
::Summer Shelton
hey ah Oh, yeah. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You can have, for example, people that come along, like, for example, production managers and such, where – they may be able to help the artists and be like, hey, actually there is cheaper lighting equipment, you know, or, hey, I think we can figure out, you know, there's a farmhouse around here. They have pretty large lighting equipment. Maybe we can figure out maybe rental or something like that.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
That type of dynamic right there is an artistically collaborative process. It's where both sides are, thick that's what I meant by parallels. It's like they're both figuring out ways of making this work.
::Summer Shelton
Absolutely. Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
That's creative producing. That's the world that I come from is like, you know, why I love producing so much is, you know, it's nice when a director can say like, hey, I want to do these things. I just don't know how.
::Summer Shelton
And I'm like, well, I can help you figure that out. It's not like I'm going to have all the magic answers, but I can help orchestrate a plan, ah schedule, a budget, hire the people.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you.
::Summer Shelton
you You know, that's producing. That's the career producers that I know and the work that they put in is they're the ones that figures all that stuff out. Like you say, the production managers are looking at the schedule like, oh, gosh, we got these five scenes to shoot.
::Summer Shelton
We're running out of money. We still need to do it. Everyone's putting on their best thinking cap because we've got to get these five pages. and And for somehow, that's what movie magic is, is people figure it out.
::Summer Shelton
For some magic way, that's the only thing I can't put in a budget is movie magic, which is funny because that's like the popular software you use to make budgets and schedules.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
It's called and movie magic. um And that's just something that you just have to get there and let happen because that's when the great minds come together. When when that best boy grip and production designer and everyone get in a circle and like someone's going to have the answer to the problem.
::Summer Shelton
So she got some really cool minded people that bring different skill sets to the table. And that's that's one thing that I think that as movie makers, we get to do that. Not a lot of people get to do is work with, you know, such diverse mindsets in a common capacity.
::Summer Shelton
You know, it's like we all have the same goal to make a great movie, but we're just all coming at it with such different skills. And but we're doing it for all the same reasons.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You need to have a lot of patience. And I think there's a lot of understanding that that comes into play because like we've been talking about from the very beginning, you're dealing with a mix of people, you know, get colorful.
::Summer Shelton
you
::Summer Shelton
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Colorful. Oh
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like you could have that one actor that's just a pain in the ass.
::Summer Shelton
yeah. They're there. yeah. is
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And they're just making everybody miserable. And, you know, yeah and everybody's coming over like, can you talk to them?
::Summer Shelton
Yes.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like, oh, you're just like, OK, all right.
::Summer Shelton
That's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Got two more weeks of this.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And like we were finished up shop and we're done. And like. You have to be able to like be patient, quick to thought, and like be able to be resilient because you're not walking into a bed of roses.
::Summer Shelton
he Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know People like think of like, oh my God, you know production's so nice.
::Summer Shelton
now
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know You get on the bus, you get on the plane, go out there, you got your own trailer and there's coffee. Nah, there's a lot of problems that come along there.
::Summer Shelton
No, that's, yeah, that's my least favorite part of making movies to be quite honest with you is production.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you know Dirty buses, terrible flights.
::Summer Shelton
I mean, everything you just said kind of just gives me chills because all you say like, Oh, and there's great coffee in here. I am thinking about, yeah, but where are we going to get the power to turn it to rig the coffee maker to when we're shooting that exterior scene?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, because you're in the trailer.
::Summer Shelton
Or I don't even, it I don't even have trailers on my movies. I can't afford them. Um, I've, I've, yet to make a film where actors have had trailers?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
you You have tents? usually set up tents out? Okay.
::Summer Shelton
Well, no, we usually have, we'll have holding spaces. So if I film in a community, let's say I'm filming at a school, I can film in one classroom, but I'll use the four other empty classrooms for holding.
::Summer Shelton
Or if I'm filming at a house on Main Street, so to speak, I'll find a church and I'll say, hey, church, can I rent out your fellowship hall? And we'll set up holding, set up base camp.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
That's actually genius.
::Summer Shelton
We'll cater our meal there. Like this is what this is like an indie on location filmmaking is, is that. Not only do you have your filming locations, but you have all your secondary locations that are your base camp holding because you got to have somewhere for hair, makeup, wardrobe.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Within the vicinity, yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. Within the the vicinity, when the actors aren't working on set, they got to have somewhere to go and sit and study their lines or just relax whatever they need to do to preserve their energy.
::Summer Shelton
um And i can't always afford them to be able to go sit in a huge trailer. Because I can't afford the trailer. I can't afford the driver of the trailer.
::Summer Shelton
ah can't afford the gas in all the trailers.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, those can very expensive on fuel.
::Summer Shelton
sufficient
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
very expensive on fuel
::Summer Shelton
Oh, every aspect of it. And two, if I get one trailer, I'm not going to have just one actor with the trailer. They're all going have to have it. So a lot of times the movies I make is like everyone just has to be on board the same you know bandwagon and know what kind of bandwagon we're traveling in. And it's not a Rolls Royce.
::Summer Shelton
It's like, look, on a good day, I'm in used sedan. A used sedan is what I'm dealing with.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Hmm Nissan villager I think there's almost a humble part of that where is yeah there there is a lot of money when it comes to acting but there's also that humble aspect of
::Summer Shelton
And we all got to know that when we get in it, it's going to get us where we need to go. we're going to be able to drive it a long time and it'll get us there. and But it's not necessarily going to be heated seats along the way.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
We're all in this together.
::Summer Shelton
That's right. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like even the person that's setting up like, you know, the the fake blood spatters on the wall, you know, or the person setting up the book.
::Summer Shelton
Oh yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like if that person's not there, there's no scene.
::Summer Shelton
That's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, everybody.
::Summer Shelton
Everyone has a role. Everyone has a role. Yeah, if that coffee's not there, people will be mad. So there's that PA, that craft service person. They all have a very important job. And I don't think there's, you know, sure, some jobs get paid more and some jobs take more experience and everything. But it is the one place where every job does have to work like a weld machine because from the moment the sun comes up people have things to do whether it's someone driving to pick up an actor and knowing what what way to get there so they get back to set on time you know knowing how to get to that church and set up holding so that each actor has their own little private dressing space and the hair makeup wardrobe team has a place to sit up and do hair and makeup and they're not you know just by a dumpster or something like
::Summer Shelton
You know, you got to realize.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
with a raccoon coming out.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. yeah
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
he
::Summer Shelton
And I'm too like, you know, you got to like think about this is what sets the stage for, you know, a performance and things. So I might not be able to have all the luxuries, but I'm I'm going to try to make things nice. You know, I'll, i'll you you know, make sure the place smells nice, make sure it's clean and make sure, you know, you have safe drivers and that we have good food and we have a good time and you're around good people.
::Summer Shelton
And I don't think all that has to be equated with super expensive and fancy because I've been in a lot of super fancy places and and not always felt so happy.
::Summer Shelton
this
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, and honestly, you know, some of the some of the greatest moments, some of the greatest memories that you have are sometimes the some of the simplest.
::Summer Shelton
Oh, absolutely.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
in it
::Summer Shelton
Absolutely.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, it's like, you know, when you go to the you go to the grocery store, right, and, you know, you see that, like, thing in the freezer section or that snack that, you know, you remember from when you were a kid, and, like, that, like, sparks you, and it's like,
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean, now it's like four five dollars, but you know still, like it it has that nostalgia effect to it. i think I think what a lot of it comes down to is you can be any kind of artist, creator, whatever you wanna be, but if you expect it to be a bed of roses and to be you know just four seasons in private jets,
::Summer Shelton
Oh, yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I think you've got to find a different reality because I don't really think this is how this world works. There's just a lot of people doing a lot of different things, and you've got to do it the best way you can with what you have.
::Summer Shelton
yeah
::Summer Shelton
yeah
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And if you complain, well, I wish I had better – well, you don't. So you've got to work with what you have.
::Summer Shelton
That's right. That's right. I don't like to spend time complaining. I like to spend time solving problems um or more importantly, finding new creative ways to do things. Because say know sometimes they're not problems. Sometimes they're just new directions to a better way anyway.
::Summer Shelton
um There's always a better mousetrap, you know, and that's something
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Improvising also, yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, and allowing for that movie magic to happen. I think if you're someone that wants to come into this thinking it's going to be a bed of roses, you better already be sleeping on a dozen yourself.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, you're going to be good at the dermatologist. You're like, why do you have so many spikes in the back?
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um um Well, I was going to ask you, Summer, on have you had any recent films you're working on or anything that's coming out?
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, i just had put out this early this year, my first directorial debut. It's called You and i It's a film I made. um during the pandemic that I wrote, directed, starred in, produced, edited.
::Summer Shelton
um And I made it with a small crew of 10 wonderful artists and three other actors. So it was a very small crew and an intimate film um where I'm making my on-screen debut opposite a phenomenal actor named Clayne Crawford.
::Summer Shelton
He's a veteran actor. He's been around for 20 years. He's um going to be in this new show on Hulu, Chad Powers, which I know a lot of people are excited about.
::Summer Shelton
It's a football comedy show. and But we made ah a Tinder romance. So it's a story about two people that are in their middle age. And you learn throughout the film what their first kind of romantic time together was like in their early life.
::Summer Shelton
But you see, like like we talked about how timing can change things.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Thank you.
::Summer Shelton
and And these are two people that life just took them in different directions. So um I wanted to write a love story where there's not a villain. The only villain in the story really is time.
::Summer Shelton
And that's something that these two people can't control. But they get to spend a weekend together kind of hashing out what did happen, what didn't happen, and kind of redefining a new memory for themselves.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's kind of a mind twister almost, you know, it's it's.
::Summer Shelton
e I hope it's a heart wrenching twister. It's pretty heart wrenching. At least the feedback I've gotten so far is that it's pretty, um a lot of people describe it as raw and intimate and feels very real. It's no like um sunshine and roses. It's very much two people in their middle age um with real problems in real life trying to do the best things. But then for a weekend, they get to kind of reconnect with someone that they've always loved and just haven't always been able to be with.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, it's beautiful. It really is. ah you know, ah regardless of how heart wrenching it is, being able to tell those stories.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean, sometimes on the opposite spectrum, it's like rom coms. Some of the greatest rom coms the ones that are comedies, but at the same time, they're so heart wrenching.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, I don't mind things that are poignant and painful is kind of the way I describe the things that I make and write. And especially this film is that a lot of people tell me like it is so sad, but that's but life's sad sometimes, you know, and that doesn't mean it's bad or good.
::Summer Shelton
It's just that sometimes the way things are and sometimes you have to just, you know, I wanted to tell.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
::Summer Shelton
um A chapter of a love story that'll never end is the way I put it. And so you feel it's a very slice of life movie. It's a real snippet in this one moment of these people's lives. They spend this weekend together. But through that weekend, you get to know everything that was. And um like it can be painful.
::Summer Shelton
um But I think what's the mature thing is when both of you can look at the pain that is and was and could be, but not let it overshadow the happiness that you may have had together, even if you can't have it forever.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
yeah it's just a fact of life really is
::Summer Shelton
Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Very much so. So people like, you know, movies like, you know, Past Lives that was out recently that, like you know, is very Academy Award nominated, but also if you even like to go back to like,
::Summer Shelton
In the Mood for Love or Bridges of Madison County or if you like the early Richard Linklater films like Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, um those character driven romances are, you know, kind of a a good vibe of where the film may resonate with.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mm-hmm. Totally. Well, I love that. I'm really happy that you you were able to get that out. i
::Summer Shelton
Thank you.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Summer, where can... Where can they um find, like for example, a movie? Do you have like a website or social media?
::Summer Shelton
I do. ah do. i have a website just for myself. It's called summershelton.com. And you can go on there and see all the films that I've made before, including you and I, which is my directorial debut.
::Summer Shelton
And you can um watch you and I on most platforms. It's available to you know, Amazon Prime, Vandango at Home, Apple. um Pretty much if you can stream it, it's probably able to be found. So if you just Google Summer Shelton, you and i um you'll be able to find links to it. Or you can just go to my website and I've like hyperlinked places where you can go and rent it.
::Summer Shelton
um to watch. So, and then on social, I have my own social, but, and then the film, my social is S underscore D underscore S. Sadly, I didn't grab my name in time.
::Summer Shelton
And then you and I, the movie all spelled out at you and I, the movie is um the film's social Instagram. So I'm most active on Instagram and Facebook, which, which can give you a clue to my age.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Awesome.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I mean, I'm 26 and I'm on Facebook all the time.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
i get I get my friends are like, why are you sending me Facebook links?
::Summer Shelton
um
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And I'm like, I use Facebook. and They're like, how old are you?
::Summer Shelton
That's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And I'm like, don't age me right now. oh
::Summer Shelton
Well, if it makes you feel but if it makes you feel better, i saw Facebook come to life.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I feel you.
::Summer Shelton
I saw the internet happen. So I'm one of that wonderful generation that like I live before the internet. I live before cell phones and I live after them. And I'm very proud of that.
::Summer Shelton
the one thing that I'm very grateful for in life is that I got to see both sides of life. And i I, wish if I had children that they would experience that too.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
i I think that's amazing.
::Summer Shelton
That's why I like to live on a rural area on a farm and, Even though that life is still around. And, you know, I used to complain that we only had the five stations, like all the kids around me had cable TV, which was the big thing, or they had the big satellite dishes in the yard, but we did not like that was not a priority.
::Summer Shelton
um But, and so now, you know, it's like the internet's went down, can't get on the Roku. So I still fight those things, but at least I can, you know, go outside and it's pretty quiet.
::Summer Shelton
And, um, try to maintain some peace in life in that way.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I think there is a lot of benefits with technology, and I think you've explained it better than anyone where, I mean, you're able to get your workout.
::Summer Shelton
but
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
um You're able to share your collaborative process. I mean, hey, we're able to podcast because of this.
::Summer Shelton
That's right. Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And it just it comes full circle.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's we're all in this together, regardless of what we're doing.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's We got to accept that we live in an industrial age. It's being able to adapt with it and figuring out ways that we can enjoy whatever life that we have.
::Summer Shelton
yeah Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
That's it.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Plain and simple.
::Summer Shelton
I could have not made the film, number one, without a digital camera because I could not afford the film. And number two, have made the film without YouTube because I knew nothing about editing movies.
::Summer Shelton
So watched YouTube videos, how to use Adobe Premiere and taught myself how to edit. And so that that's things like I there's so many times like I never realized like how much I relied on YouTube in my life until you just sit down and think about like, oh, you know, you know, when you're a filmmaker, sometimes, you know, people say YouTube, you don't really think in certain ways.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
But I'm like, that is like, what When we used to have um the set of Encyclopedia Britannica like on the shelf, like if your family that could go get the set of that, and then you also had a subscription to... like
::Summer Shelton
Time Magazine and Home Mechanics and How To and Southern Living and all these magazines, like you can just go on YouTube and watch the how to's, you know, of how to do anything.
::Summer Shelton
And like, you know, ah every time I have to like jumpstart a car, I'm rewatching on YouTube because I'm so paranoid that I'm going to do it wrong. and I'm like, oh let me just go on YouTube and watch or like, wait a minute.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Mmm.
::Summer Shelton
Which one do I put on first, the red or the black? And then y'all watch three YouTube videos to make sure I hear the same thing. And so like it's because of that, like people probably do feel safer out traveling and being able to like have a crutch.
::Summer Shelton
But also, like you said, you know, your mom grew up in New York in the 70s. You know, I grew up on playgrounds that were on asphalt lots with steel slides out under the sun.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Oh, i had i I had that when I was a kid, too.
::Summer Shelton
Third degree burns, you know.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And guess what?
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, that's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
My dad hit his head and he had staples.
::Summer Shelton
Exactly. Like, that's like, you know, there was not a day you didn't walk into class.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It was dangerous.
::Summer Shelton
Somebody had on a cast, you know, like somebody, somebody fell off some moving vehicle, you know, john Johnny slid down this wrong, broke his arm out, you know, playing with a BB gun or like, you know, oh, they were.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
ah so Yeah. Somebody broke something. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
oh
::Summer Shelton
They were trying to chase the chat up cat up the tree with the BB gun and like they hung a ladder from a limb. Like God knows what kind of stories that you would hear.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
King on the hill.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah. And that's, you know, I do. I do miss that. Like you say, resilience, because I think there's a physical resilience that my childhood gave to me that I don't know that kids always get to experience now, you know, um of the whole like, where where is your kid edit at 10 a 10 p.m.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You... you
::Summer Shelton
Every parent. Now they got the location like they're tracking them like they got devices on them. I'm surprised we don't put chips in our kids like we do dogs, you know.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's, um, it allows you to be more resilient as a person, you know, to be, be able to be more creative.
::Summer Shelton
oh yeah. hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
like Like I'm not let you, like I, besides podcasts, like I produce my own music and I do everything on garage band myself. I'm self-taught, you know, I would use YouTube videos and I've had people that like, wait a minute, you, you made that? And I'm like, yeah,
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And they're like, how did you do that? I'm like, I use GarageBand.
::Summer Shelton
That's right.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And it's just a matter of trial and error. It's where you, we no longer have the middleman.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Like the idea of the middleman is, it's gone.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's like, you're yeah, you're the middleman.
::Summer Shelton
can't be afraid to fail okay
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
I'm the middleman. We're all the middleman, you know?
::Summer Shelton
Yeah, you got to believe in yourself and don't be afraid to fail. Like you're, you know, you might do something wrong. You might get hurt. Something might not go right. So what?
::Summer Shelton
I bet you learned something. I bet you're not going to do it that way again. and i think that's with anything in life.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
No.
::Summer Shelton
And I think that that's, you know, whether it's art, movies, fixing your that's just, that's just what it is.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, it's the it's the tale as old as time.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Summer, I have to say, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. I feel like every single time I have filmmakers that have come on, it's like I'm learning more and more and more.
::Summer Shelton
Thank you.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, it's like, you know, you think like, you know, a lot about independent indie films and then you bring on the filmmakers.
::Summer Shelton
um
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You're like, oh, well, I really don't know what's actually going on.
::Summer Shelton
yeah Don't worry.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's great.
::Summer Shelton
Most most most people don't.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's great.
::Summer Shelton
and And I'm kind of glad that some don't. you know Just turn it on and enjoy it. like i I kind of wish sometimes people would just turn on a TV, pick something and start watching it you know Don't waste time.
::Summer Shelton
Don't waste a 90 minute searching for something. Just watch something. you know give Give that artist a chance.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah.
::Summer Shelton
Who cares if you don't know who's on the poster and what it looks like? Just just try it.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's honestly it you can.
::Summer Shelton
You can always turn it off.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
It's just getting out of your comfort zone and being able to experience something different.
::Summer Shelton
Yeah.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
And I think like having, you know, that understanding of what it takes to be in that environment is just. It's incredible. It's not for everyone, but if you're able to make that for yourself, I think that's just more amazing than anything else.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
You know, like you've been able to make your own staple and I think that's incredible.
::Summer Shelton
Mm-hmm. Well, thank you so much. I'm really grateful that, gave me this opportunity to chat and hope, you know, your listeners might enjoy some of the things that I made or it'll lead them down a path of searching to find other things that they'll like.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Of course.
::Summer Shelton
So thank you so much.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Who knows?
::Summer Shelton
who knows?
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Yeah, my pleasure. And listen, anybody out there that want to check out more of the podcast, you can find us at Lost in the Groove pod everywhere and anywhere. So with that, catch you on the next one.
::Lost in the Groove Podcast
Peace out.
