Episode 210

#210 - Interview with adventurer Bet TerHart

In this episode, we dive into the fascinating life, and pursuits of Bert terHart. A self-described "soldier, sailor, scientist, adventurer, and serial entrepreneur." Bert shares his journey from a childhood spent on the prairies of Canada. To becoming an internationally recognized explorer, and advocate for the oceans. Despite being colorblind. Bert’s lifelong passion for the sea and history shines through in his stories. From sailing solo around the globe, to traversing Canada by foot and canoe. His experiences underscore humanity’s adaptability, and the importance of preserving our planet.

We also explore the intersections of science, artificial intelligence, and the natural world. Bert’s insights into the deep ocean, and the adaptability of Indigenous peoples. How the ethical dilemmas surrounding AI, may offer a thought-provoking look. At possibly our relationship with the unknown. Leaving you pondering the boundless possibilities of human innovation. What lessons we can learn from the planet, and each other.

Check out more of Bert's work, with the links provided below:

We have a magical link below with all our socials and handle so you can find us on your favorite pod spot 🤟.

Transcript
::

Bert

suppose over the course of my adult life, but the the underlying theme has been driven by two sort of two sort of things. One, I'm completely colorblind, which which is pretty odd because yeah because I see the world ah i see the on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being black and white, 0 being you know you're perfect, I'm a 9.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Really?

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Bert

So i see I see the world as if it's completely grayscale. So imagine going out at a moonlit night. so why why Why that's relevant is because um i've my father was a sailor, ah was a merchant marine, sailed a merchant mariner for sailed around the world. His his father, my uncles, you know everybody in my father's family, even on the mother on my mom's side of the family, they were all they were all at sea in some way, shape or form. So i it it the saltwater seems to run in my veins. but Because I'm colorblind and I didn't find that out until I was in military college when I was well on my way to being you know in the Navy, um that completely sidetracked you know that that that part of my life.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Uh-huh.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right.

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Bert

But that's that passion has always stayed with me. So you know go to sea. um whether I wanted to do that professionally. So once I got out of the army, I wanted to go to i wanted to go to tobe to be an academic, to be an oceanographer, to go to sea and study the the oceans firsthand. But, you know, um being colourblind, that limited my opportunities. and then that And then the Canadian government decided they were going to completely defund any sort of ah shipboard research. So that was the end of that, you know, that ah that was the end of going to sea again.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, wow.

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Bert

And so I moved away from science because I had programming skills and I literally fell into into the health nation. I spent my whole adult sort of professional life as ah as an IT guy.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

h

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Bert

um So I've always had my fingers in in technology in that regard, even you know even as an academic, even as a soldier actually. so Sort of that that that thread binds my life together and then you know because I always wanted to be on a boat some somehow some way That's always stayed with me as well.

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Bert

So as a young boy I was always paddling something or as I was trying to put a sail on something and that you know that that culminates in 50,000 plus nautical miles at sea most of it sailed by myself Hmm

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

You know, though, what's really like, what's really fascinating is because I can kind of relate to this, I have um one of my classmates because I'm currently in trade school to be an automotive technician.

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Bert

Mm hmm.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

One of my classmates is colorblind.

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Bert

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

And he doesn't have colorblind to your extent, but he's missing.

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Bert

Mm hmm.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

He can't see red or green.

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Bert

Correct.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

And what's interesting is like we know we're working on cars, right where they have oils and fluids and different things.

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Bert

Mm hmm.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

and But he can't differentiate between the different colors of things. This guy is like 18 years old and brilliant, like really fucking brilliant, like genius. He knows his cars, he understands engines, like he has a really great grasp. I think that when it comes to craftsmanship or even, you know, like you said, your connection with the ocean, color plays a role, but it's not the only role that it plays, right?

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Bert

ah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course that's, ah I mean, um there's it certainly isn't It certainly isn't the most important role and you can certainly substitute for it in in many different ways.

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Bert

So it's one of those things that we can easily um that that we can easily compensate for. So for example, um you've always been told as a kid that the sky is blue and the grass is green.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

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Bert

So that's all you need to know. You don't actually have to know what what what blue and green are you just have to know when you look at the sky that that's blue and look at the grass at that screen and then there's then there's there's there's there's obviously there's false in some kind of spectrum or or there's there's graduations there but the but the point is like like you said the color blue or the color green isn't the primary driver of what you know of of what you're seeing or how you're reacting or or anything like that at all. There's there's all these other cues um in in our life that would that that for people who are who don't necessarily see well who see the world sort of as I do in terms of grayscale that we can compensate for. So you're the the fellow that you're talking about who has who's obviously very, very smart and brilliant and in your words is

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Bert

He's able to to to look at at at a particular fluid, and he might be seeing some sort of gradation of the color, or he might be seeing something entirely that that that you're not looking at.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Exactly. Yeah.

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Bert

So um you know like my I grew up in the prairies, so that's perfectly flat.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Midwest.

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Bert

yeah ah No, I'm Canadian, so basically North Dakota.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, OK.

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Bert

like so so

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

I don't know if they have that in Canada, because we have in like here in the US, we have like the West Coast and the East Coast.

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Bert

Yeah. Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

I don't know how it works up in Canada. Is it like the office?

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Bert

Yeah, it's ah no it's the it's the same.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, it's the exact same. OK.

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Bert

Yeah, it's pretty much the same. So I live on the left coast, you know, the same as you know as you guys might refer to it. But the my brother would say about the prairies.

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Bert

There's lots to look at and nothing to see. And that's because people who didn't grow up in the prairies are looking, Oh, where's the mountain? Where's the trees? You know, where's the valleys? Where all these things that would, that would normally draw your attention.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

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Bert

But there's, you know, if you grew up in the prairies, like I did, then there's a thousand things to see. They're just not necessarily mountains, you know, trees and forests, but there's still every, every bit as much to capture your attention.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, 100.

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Bert

So, so

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, 100%. I mean, yeah, I mean, because like, to your point, I live here in Florida, and Florida is flat.

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Bert

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Okay, flat, there ain't no mountains, there ain't no hills, none of that. to your point, like, there's a lot of stuff to do in Florida, you know?

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Bert

Oh yeah. Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

You don't need ski resorts out here to make Florida amazing, you know what I'm saying?

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Bert

Oh yeah.

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Bert

Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've, I've been to Florida. Like, I guess like you can't really, you can't really have a Canadian passport unless you've been to Florida. I think it's not allowed. So yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, pretty much, especially with British, people from Britain, it's the same thing. If you're Irish, British, Canadian, you've never been to Florida, you've never been to the United States, sorry.

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Bert

Yeah, yeah, so and it's flat. So I felt I felt right at home. um I mean, there's there's certainly ah there's certainly a few more trees, but you know, the I can certainly appreciate it being flat.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

o Oh yeah, a little more.

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Bert

Yeah, so I mean, that's I, i'm I'm all I mean, if you look at it, I'm all over the map, but there's

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Bert

but there's things that that that tie all these things together. And I'm i'm a history buff as well. ah So because again, i because I grew up in the prairies, I was literally surrounded by this amazing, I mean, i mean it's ah it's an incredibly hard place to live, like Fargo, North Dakota, which I'm only a maybe a hundred miles from Fargo, North Dakota, maybe 120.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

oh i love history

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

You know, actually, I know where that is.

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Bert

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

For one reason is because I contacted a Native American tribe out in Fargo, North Dakota.

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Bert

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

And these people are batshit crazy. All right. Like they live they live in insane weather.

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Bert

Oh, yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

OK, I grew up in New York.

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Bert

Oh, yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

You think cold is cold.

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Bert

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

This is cold.

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Bert

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you have exactly.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

It's really cold.

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Bert

Yeah. So that's, it's, it's interesting that you, that, that, that's what you would do. That's what resonated with you because as a kid, I, you know, I, I, and my dad was a land surveyor. So I worked for my dad, which meant that I was, we were outside all the time, winter, summer, spring, and fall didn't matter.

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Bert

And then you get an appreciation, you get an appreciation for how incredibly hard the country is.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

always outside h nope well

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Bert

And yet people lived there. The first nations people lived there. And they, you know, they they didn't have houses with heating. They had nothing, nothing. They had, you know, fire. I shouldn't say, well, you know, to say they had nothing is, you know, completely undermines and underappreciates how amazing they were.

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Bert

but

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

they they Their understanding of especially raw hides and animal skins really helped them be able to survive a lot more than other Native American tribes across Canada and especially across the United States.

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Bert

um

::

Bert

Mm hmm.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

A lot of these groups, you know again, like it comes down to if you need to survive, and there's beer minimum around you, you're going to try to vitalize and use up as much of your resources to the best possible outcome you can.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Because otherwise, you're gonna die, right?

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Bert

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Plain and simple.

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Bert

And I, you know, you you make a really you make a really good point. and I think it's a point that that we completely that that we have shaped policies around that are just horrible. So my my point there is that ah First Nations people are our testament to how incredibly adaptable ah humans are. so whether it's you know and And First Nations, of course, they're they're they're trying to live in these in these incredibly harsh environments with with with nothing, basically, except what they can scrabble together by hand.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm-hmm.

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Bert

And we've sort of gotten away from that, even though even though we you know we've we've been able to adapt in in amazing and in amazing ways, whether it's going to the moon or whether it's being in space or whether it's you know reclaiming you know ah reclaiming land that's that's that's that's under the sea. So Holland, for example, or the Mekong Delta.

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Bert

um but But we make policies that are geared towards mitigation, which humans are absolutely horrible at. we we're We're terrible at mitigation, but we're very good at at adapting. so And anytime that you hear some sort of policy that's that's focused on mitigation, like, for example, deciding that you were going to if you're a billionaire,

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Bert

maybe by the name of Bill Gates and you think that it's a good idea to shade the earth, to to you know to to to lower temperature, that's insane.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Uh-huh. Yeah. That's insane. That's insane.

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Bert

It's great well it's it's mitigation in in its worst possible way.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

In many ways, I think, like, I mean, honestly, Bill Gates has sounded like George Soros many times, but that was the ultimate George Soros analogy I've ever heard in my entire life. I mean, the fact that we want to... You know what? Like, I've said this before so many times. If we think about it,

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mother nature Nature is a quantum computer. It's an organic quantum computer. It creates organic materials using some sort of calculation. If that's the case, then what we're looking at is not only a complex structure of space, our planet, our atmosphere, among other things, but this is being calculated.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Consistently, what what what do you think evolution is? It's just an evolved ah calculation of whatever the DNA structure and molecules are coming together.

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Bert

yeah yeah

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

That's all it is.

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Bert

Yeah, well, I think that I think that you know, we're, we, we tend to, I mean, we have to simplify that's, that's the very nature of science, like as ah as a scientist, one of the things that I did was come up with, come up, come up with assumptions to simplify circumstance, so then I could actually model it.

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Bert

So to take a look at the ocean, for example, so the science that I did, I mean, I'm going to digress a bit here to get back to your point. So as

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

No, no, no, actually, I want you to talk about the ocean, particularly, especially with deep, like, you know, the deep ocean creatures, specifically also, if you want to get into that, because that in itself is fascinating.

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Bert

Sure. yeah yes i mean Well, I mean, i'm okay, let's let's let's let's just jump right there. So forget all this other crap.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, let's go.

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Bert

So so ah I mean, what you talked about um ah nature basically being this amazing computer is is basically they they they nature herself is taking into kind and into account a million a billion different things all at once, where where we as humans, because we're simplistic, although we're part of the natural world, in order to understand it, we have to simplify.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Bert

So you know what what Bill Gates has done in terms of trying to simplify global warming is, for example, is that we'll shade the Earth. Well, that's that's one of a million variables, right? So it's like it's like it's like me taking off a watch and saying, I'm going to fix the watch.

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Bert

And by fixing it, I'm going to jam a nail into the back. So and I might do that a million, billion times before I actually affect a positive change, every other thing I'm going to destroy. Because the watch is way more complicated than the nail, right?

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Bert

But as humans, you know, ah

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

There's multiple, there's multiple variables.

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Bert

Yeah, of course. So so speaking of the ah at the deep ocean, and again, we have a very simplistic view of life. And because we're basically a two dimensional creature, like we live on the surface of the Earth, we don't fly above it, except artificially, we don't go but go below it.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

We don't swim in it.

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Bert

We don't swim in it. So we're living on the surface. So I mean, you don't have to go to the you don't have to go to the deep ocean to be to be absolutely astounded by a creature. Just look at a dragonfly under a microscope.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm-hmm.

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Bert

If you ever want to be shocked, right? Oh my god. Thank god. This thing isn't like, you know, six feet tall with a wingspan of eight feet because it'd eat me right in Oh god, yeah, they get Well, it's yeah, it's it's amazing they they they

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

I mean, it's wingspan is impeccable. I mean, they can fly better than some of the helicopters we've produced. Just the way that they can manipulate the air and move direction like. It's crazy.

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Bert

they They fly perfectly in any direction. The forwards, backwards, left, right, doesn't make any difference. they can and And they can change that that directionality based on, like, in an instant. And and if you if you ever watch them hunt, it's shocking. It's absolutely shocking. Because they'rere what they're eating is minuscule. You can barely see it with your eye. And they just drill it every single time. So they have an intelligence beyond ours in that one particular aspect.

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Bert

But then if you if you look at, of course, that's just a dragonfly, but if you look in the deep ocean, it's even it's even a thousand, it's a hundred thousand times more shocking because the environment because the environment is a hundred thousand times more extreme, right?

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Like Angelfish.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Ew.

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Bert

it's it's so and and i mean it's i mean For one thing, the deep ocean is a desert in in in every way that you can that that you can imagine a debt a desert minus the heat. There's nothing to eat and there's nowhere to hide.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

No.

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Bert

ah except except there's creatures that live and thrive there and somehow manage to find breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So it's just shocking.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

but like which What's fascinating ah but fascinating also, some of these creatures have developed to have bioluminescence and basically be almost invisible, like their skin is translucent.

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Bert

so

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

like And then you have to wonder, there's a reason why they developed like that because of the harsh conditions that they're in. I mean, think about the creatures that live in the Sahara Desert.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

It's particularly even mammals. A lot of them, they're super tiny. They're super fast and they're super light. why I mean, obvious reasons, there's nothing to eat and you gotta be really fast if you're small because otherwise you're somebody else's lunch, breakfast, and dinner.

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Bert

is

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Bert

is I mean, there's there's yeah, there's there's a there's there's a million reasons plus there's probably a billion reasons why that creature living in the desert is that way and you know and and we can you know if you're really smart we could probably name a hundred or two hundred but we're but we're a long ways away from from the million or billion that's that's that's required and you know what's what's actually to to go take that one step farther the DNA that separates us from an earthworm

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, yeah. but low

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

But yeah, sure.

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Bert

we're almost we're, we're in the order of 90 plus percent the same in terms of our DNA as an earthworm. So the differences are actually very small in terms of percentages. So the way that, you know, the, the, the building blocks of the creatures that are living in the deep sea or on the Sahara desert or you and I are an earthworm are unbelievably, um,

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Bert

Malleable and the same it just takes a few tweaks here and there and here and there and here and there and i think that's ah i mean that's one of the places i think that we'll see i know anyone health care because i'm i'm i have an it t background and like and my fingers are currently in the you know in in that space.

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Bert

you're going to see i You're going to see AI make changes in the healthcare care industry that that even a year ago, 18 months ago, would have been absolutely um unheard of. you know Whether it's cancer drugs or whether it's hyper-focused pharmaceuticals to address um very, very, very specific ah well i'll say challenges because it doesn't have to be a disease it might just be something you're unhappy with so it's it's gonna make these unbelievable changes and it's also gonna it's also gonna find out it's also gonna discover and shed light on on our dna that's and take us to a place that we we could not possibly have imagined even you know even a year ago

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Well, I think also the the benefits of artificial intelligence will give us a better understanding. I mean, even particularly with science, you know, people want to shed a dark light, but the key to possibly space travel, the key to better understanding our oceans, the key to better understanding our environment may in fact be artificial intelligence, because artificial intelligence in many ways kind of acts like mother nature.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Like you said, you take a creature that is 90% similar in DNA to humans, but yet that 5%, sorry, not 5%, 10%, my apologies, that 10% creates the difference between a human and an earthworm. So you have the same prompt that outputs two different variables.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

based on, again, like literally a very small margin of percentage. you know you want You could always look at things from a negative lens, but there's so much more positive coming from this array than we have seen from other things in the past.

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Bert

Well, I think, you know, I think our our perceptions, well, our historical precedent would say that humans are aren' aren't very good at adapting technology in the sense that the first the first thing they choose to do with it is look to exert

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

mm-hmm politicize it possibly

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Bert

ah power in some way, shape or form. So I mean, so we looked at we we talked about indigenous peoples, you know, right off the bat. um One of the first big technological advances that that indigenous people got were by the Dutch actually, you say you're from when when they arrived in in the New World, in New York, or what they called New Amsterdam, they they had no compunction about trading guns for for furs, for pelts.

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Bert

Whereas in Canada, it was slightly different, certainly at that time. But the first thing that First Nations people did, and not I'm not signaling out First Nations people living here, this is true of of humans across the globe.

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Bert

As soon as you as soon as as soon as there was a technological bump, they used that to to to force

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Bert

So in the case of First Nations, they used a gun to took to force people without guns and out of their out of their territories, out of their hunting grounds, out of their spiritual, out of the out of the land that was important to them. If you look at um British, for example, as soon as they soon as they were able to you know extract the levers of sea power, they became a world force. look at the Look at nuclear weapons. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what technology.

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Bert

look at I mean, if you look at computer technology, look at the ability to fly, look at the ability to, um look at the the canoe, something that's close to my heart. Look at, as soon as people were able to leverage that in some way, shape or form, they they managed to exert themselves in a way that wasn't necessarily you know for the betterment of all.

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Bert

So taking a step away from AI, it's very easy for us to look at that, like you had said, to look at the dark side, right?

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Bert

Which is which is part of our, part of the human condition, I suppose. But um hopefully we're a little more mature um as a species, if I could be so general, to think that there's there's there's way more benefit to to come from it. And I think there's... and you know what that's a That's a that's a really big ask because one of the one of the mistakes that we make is that everyone else is like us and they aren't.

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Bert

So people have people coming from ah from different cultures, people coming from from different places, people coming from different from different um geographies, for example, they have different immediate pressing concerns.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, yeah, for sure.

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Bert

um So, I mean, and we talked about indigenous peoples and being adaptable and look at the Inuit people living up north, they have They have fundamentally different concerns going forward, um you know pushing, making sure that they're living their best life than someone who's living, say, in um in Fiji.

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Bert

right there's completely different They have completely different problems.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, completely different lives.

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Bert

So it's it's very hard then to take something like that that that has this blanket possibility, like AI, and have whoever whoever's in charge of it, you know we're going to ask them to be mature enough to make sure that this is something that

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

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Bert

that benefits everybody and not just a few. so

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

I mean, and it's it's also its ability, because again, it doesn't come with all of the issues and problems we humans come with. When you can apply it to, for example, just going through, hold on one second.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

My apologies, forgot to turn off my phone.

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Bert

Yeah, no worries.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

i yeah So I try to.

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Bert

I locked mine away.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

ah So when you look at, for example, with artificial intelligence, where it doesn't have all of these problems that human beings have, And you take something, for example, like historically different types of writing or, for example, different artifacts that we have that we're not able to interpret because of our limited understanding.

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Bert

yeah

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

You have a ah ah thing called artificial intelligence that can take everything, run it through a program. and be able to come up with a proper proper script, a proper direction that you can take to be able to translate whatever you're trying to do. These are just some of the invent advancements that we have. I mean, imagine being able to, like, we sent over a rover over to Mars that had artificial intelligence. Imagine if you could take something like that and put it at the bottom of the ocean and just have that thing with a crew of three or four and just

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Go around, come back up, whatever you got to do, make sure to keep those things maintained, keep that mission for a couple of months. Do you know how much information we would learn from the bottom of our ocean, having those things down there?

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Bert

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

It's incredible.

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Bert

Well, I think that I mean, there's there there's a caveat here, too, is that um so as a as a programmer, um and I've been a programmer for a long time.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, for sure.

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Bert

So um and we've been we've been living, if you'll forgive the pun or pardon the pun, there's we've been you know is swimming in a sea of AI for a long time.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm-hmm.

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Bert

it's We've just decided to call it AI now. So um and

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

It's not really AI, but that that's what it's called, yeah.

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Bert

So ah yeah, so so that there's, there's still a chance, I mean, and this is something that chat GPT struggled with, it's, you know, Gemini has struggled with it, basically, every early form of of AI, as we know it struggle with is that it's fine tune based on some based on a programmer's perspective, right, you can If you're fine-tuning or you're programming AI, you're still deciding what you're going to feed it. right so there's um and in people where People were pretty good at the beginning when chatgbt first came out of you know getting you know keep prompting chatgbt till it would start hallucinating, which is literally making stuff up, or go keep prompting it, or finding out you know finding out if there were biases in the in in whatever they were tuning with tuning it with. an end

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Bert

that's that's ah That's an issue that you know chat GBTA, that's an issue that that everyone is going to struggle with. i mean you know Elon Musk has XAI. He's got something coming out in the next little while, which which he says is, well, he's He's, he I hate to say promoting, but he certainly um he's certainly ah touting it as being free of of any the of any the the biases that that that that currently exist.

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Bert

So it's it's important, like this this is it's what I call the field of dreams fallacy from the movie field of dreams, where these you know if if you build it, they will come.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

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Bert

So the um it's it it's, It's not entirely true that just because you know if you build AI, that it you know the the outcome that you want is just goingnna going to manifest itself out of that.

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Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, very true.

::

Bert

so there's there's you know There's a good deal of concern about AI as as we know it, having um having everything bad about it.

::

Bert

because Firstly, like for example, um there was ah there was a research there was some research done by um by

::

Bert

Uh, there's, there was a couple of scientists who published about maybe six or seven months ago. And they're both, these guys are very well known. They're, they're exceptional scientists. And what they were doing were they were looking for, for cancer drugs. And the problem with it's, the it's a sticking a pin on the back of a watch problem.

::

Bert

There's way more things, it's much, much easier to make you sick than it is to make you better. So they they they would spend all this time um figuring out how proteins, ah because proteins are an incredibly common complex molecule, it's one of the ways that were built, but they were they were trying to understand how they could build protein so that they they could latch onto cells and cell receptors and do this in a way that's actually beneficial. And there's a there's there's ah there's a million ways to do that wrong and very few ways to do it right.

::

Bert

So they were using AI and the and the prompts that they were using, very sophisticated prompts were basically telling it to be safe, come up with the safest way to do this. And it was astonishing. And then they thought, wait a second, this is all public knowledge. we're not we're not We're not coding all this AI stuff itself. We're just prompting an existing model. How about we give it the opposite prompt, which is come up with ah but the most lethal you know with the most lethal drugs that you can. And and they thought, OK, well, it's going to come up with one or two. No big deal. So they went to sleep, and they came back the following morning, which is how long it takes these things to run, because proteins are in the order of you know one

::

Bert

are there's There's basically a billion or so different ways to fold a protein, so it's a very complicated problem. And they came back in the morning and there was something like 50,000 hyper-toxic drugs, drugs that that they had never even imagined that that were capable of killing a massive swath of the human population. It's like, oh my God, what have we done? So they put the brakes on everything and then went to the government and said, hey, you know, maybe this is something we should be looking at. So there's this, you know, I'm not i'm not trying to put the fear of God into anybody. I'm just saying like, there's there's two scopes, there's two ways, right? And and and the prompts,

::

Bert

we need to have We need to have AI that's that's truly agnostic, which is completely unbiased. And that's a problem. It's hard to do.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

It is. Well, that in itself is the next evolution, which is where it's be able to be non-bias, where it's, you know, I'm not a programmer, but I am a little bit computer savvy and I do kind of veer towards electronics, particularly with the automotive industry. But there is a way of being able to have what you call an automated program.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

that automatically fixes its own programming and be able to make its own complex decision making. But there is there is a level where people have to understand like what you were saying.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

there is a There's a side that definitely expresses all of the issues and problems.

::

Bert

It definitely expresses all the issues and problems.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

that can definitely lead to really bad places. I mean, let's be honest, I mean, we're dealing with people and people will do people will do things for selfish reasons, monetary gain. I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of different ways people can um can put their poker chips down on the table.

::

Bert

Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more. And I think you know the only thing that I would add is that we we live on the we live on a razor's edge all the time and take it completely for granted. you we We talked earlier about how difficult it it was for for people to live in in in Fargo. But by the same token, if you were to suddenly scrub all the the niceties of home that you have living in Florida, suddenly living out on the beach gets pretty hard pretty quick, right? so Um, it's, and even, you know, one of the examples I like to use is if you're, you know, you're screaming down the highway at, you know, at a, at 70 or 80 miles an hour and just a couple of feet over there on the left hand side, someone's going the opposite way at 80 or so miles an hour. And you never give it a second thought.

::

Bert

And every of course, you know people die horribly every year in in head-on collisions and it's a very real possibility But we just blow it off as never happening. So, you know that that that just speaks to again how how we live on this you know, really really really thin thin line and yet and and Yeah in Lahaina, yeah, yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

g Do you remember do you remember the um in Hawaii they have the fires? And What happened?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

like that That was it. and happened like We heard for two weeks.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I mean, or is there did the houses get rebuilt?

::

Bert

oh yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Are they okay?

::

Bert

ppened before, it happened in:

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Nothing happened.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Very preventable.

::

Bert

hole town, you know, when the:

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

um My mom would say that, well, she's passed away, but my mom would say that come the veneer of civilization is very, very thin. So it doesn't take very much, you know, just like a kind of tiny scratch on the surface and suddenly we're all cavemen, right? And and and I mean, ah yeah, it's, anyway, so AI has that, AI has the potential to to make a very deep scratch on the surface of civilization.

::

Bert

And and heaven forbid, you know if we if if everything sort of goes the wrong way. So it's good to balance. In my mind, it's always good to understand that we live on this on this razor's edge. And it's nice to know you know when you're straying a little bit, because the the results tend to be catastrophic, like the fire in Lahaina.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

::

Bert

And then and then you know because our attention spans are so so ah are are so short, we just go, oh, well, I guess, you know too bad for those guys. yeah What's for dinner?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Hey, they got they got Oprah and Dwayne Johnson out there. They should be okay. They got tons of tequila.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Got tons of prep talks. They'll be fine. They'll be fine.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

They're okay.

::

Bert

Yeah. Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

But i it's just, um it's a strange notion also because there is this kind of getting a little more sci-fi.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

There is this unprecedented of visitors or travelers that have come. I mean, there are depictions of this scattered across, you know, Babylonian, um you have with the Egyptians, you have with the Greeks.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

It it just goes on. But it seems like almost weird now, it's kind of hard to believe like we're, we know that there are billions of planets. We know kind of an understanding of how planets such as ours are formed. So to to say that, you know, there isn't any possible life out there besides ours, on the contrary that are just as intelligent as we are, and maybe even more intelligent than we are, and maybe they have the ability to time travel or space travel, or do you want to call it?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I think it's very plausible. I think it's very possible for those things to exist.

::

Bert

it

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I just think that we as humans just have a very hard time of understanding things that we have never experienced before.

::

Bert

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Yeah, I think I mean, part part of the issue is, again, from a scientific perspective, perspective one of the things that you should hear that you should never do is look at a mystery that's a mystery and then and then explain it with a bigger mystery. So that's that's the cardinal sin. So if you if you if you make an extraordinary claim, you have to have extraordinary proof. So if if I said to you, you know hey, there's a Sasquatch in the room right behind me, you'd go, Bert,

::

Bert

I'm looking behind you. There's no SaaS question.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right.

::

Bert

But I go, oh, no, there's one there. So if I'm going to make an extraordinary claim, I better have extraordinary evidence. And there's plenty of evidence that it seems to be that there's plenty of evidence about other people visiting Earth.

::

Bert

And I want to stay away from using things that are mysterious, like how in the world did they build things in in Central America. How do they build these these massive structures um using stones that that we can barely move today and put them you know and then and then put them together or place them in such in such a fashion that you can't slip a piece of paper between them?

::

Bert

like We have a very difficult time you know doing that sort of building, and we certainly couldn't do it with the tools that that that we imagine they had. So there's all kinds of mysteries around there.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

yeah there's also There's also this notion too where are I was throwing this idea with a friend of mine.

::

Bert

And it's

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

She's also on the the podcast where if you If you think about it, we evolved the way that we did because of the environment and our planet, okay? The possibility that other intelligent life developed the same way that we did, like to your point, it's like saying there's Sasquatch right behind you. you know Even going even crazy to the idea, there could be intelligent life forms that are completely made out of metal. Head to toe, completely metal.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

How is that possible? We don't know, but that is a possibility. There is a possibility of having even something gaseous, made out of gas, that is alive. But again, with our limited understanding and our like central focus that humans are made out of skin and flesh and bone, you know there could be other forms of intelligent life forms out there in the universe that don't look like us, are not structured like us at all.

::

Bert

Oh, yeah. I mean, if if if we ever came across intelligent intelligent life, like, you know, face to face, or even virtually like like you and I are doing, it it would be it would be by definition wildly different.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah. Yeah.

::

Bert

We wouldn't recognize it because we, you know, the way that we've evolved, the way that this planet has evolved, all these things are, I mean, if you ignore the the the the religious um underpinnings and and connotations, it's a complete and utter accident.

::

Bert

So if you look at if you look at all the things that had to conspire to make the earth, it would it's a mind numbingly large array of accidents. So it's it's.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, such as our moon forming, such as Jupiter saving Earth.

::

Bert

like oh you know yeah Yeah, I mean, you know getting getting yeah get it getting hit by asteroids at just the right time, the the list goes on and on and on and on.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

There's so many.

::

Bert

And it's a mind-numbingly, I mean, that the if you had to sit down and and come up with a with with a statistic that would say, what's the probability of happening? It would be almost zero.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right.

::

Bert

But the universe is so large that almost zero ends up being a very, very large number if you multiply that by, say, 100 billion planets. and you know what's what ah the the interesting you know one of the interesting One of the interesting things about about quantum mechanics in particular, if if i mean whenever I hear someone start talking about quantum mechanics, I always think the next thing I hear is bullshit. so you'll have to

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

No, no, no. i Listen, I love pseudoscience, okay?

::

Bert

so so one of the i mean One of the things about about quantum mechanics is that there's is that there's the the the many the the many worlds sir you are the or the many universes.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Kidding. I'm kidding.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm-hmm.

::

Bert

There's a multiverse. right So there's no problem. There's no difference probabilistically from a universe that evolves with just us in it and one that evolves with many forms, not just us. So from a quantum perspective, we can say, yeah, the whole universe was created. It's just ours. It's just that's part of the one of the multiverse. There's there's a there's another universe that's full of intelligent life.

::

Bert

That that and and it's all metal and there's another one that's full of intelligent life and it's all gaseous And there's another one that's intelligent life and it only looks like us full stop period So you can make an argument from from a science that from the the single Most tested most reliable piece of science and that's quantum, you know, that's quantum mechanics as we know it today. So there's there's It's an unbelievably interesting question, and you can go to you know you end up in a thousand different rabbit holes. right so

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

um but which which which again i suppose The most interesting thing about it to me is that we as humans are able to under we we have we've been given some special place.

::

Bert

to be able to understand things on a very, very small scale, say the quantum scale and things on a massive scale, which is a universal scale. So just imagine that for a minute. You can understand things at the Planck length, which is 10 to the minus 67, which is to say if the Planck length were blown up to something that ah of of our sort of experience, that one Planck length would be the full extent of the universe away from us. That's how that's how large it is. That's how that's so tiny that 10 to the minus 63 I think is. But my point is that we still have the ability to have an understanding about that and it and then to apply it to science and then use that science to to make predictions. like

::

Bert

You know, DNA and like quantum computing, for example, which is nothing more than understanding, you know, ah just in the name itself. Right. So we have. So there's this we have this special gift that allows us to have these firstly, to be inquisitive enough.

::

Bert

to ask the questions that would lead to good answers like is there a multiverse or this is special relatively right or what's the nature of the life of life that's living on on the bottom of the ocean and it's worth it i mean and think about that the the the really important interest thing about that that's really interesting is that you say okay well.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

Let's create ah an AI robot that crawls the bottom of the ocean and sends us information back about something and just just so we could learn more. But there's implicitly what you're saying is that there's some good to be derived in that, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

yeah

::

Bert

So we you've you've made a value judgment about about knowledge, ah about the pursuit of knowledge being a higher being a higher goal, right? the The current state I'm in right now would be better if I if i were to pursue knowledge in a way that's that's good right as opposed to give me a way to create 100 drugs that that could kill 100,000 people.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Well, they did that with, um I think it was, like I said earlier, with the Curiosity mission that went to Mars.

::

Bert

right so

::

Bert

isnt

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

was what, I'm not mistaken, the rover got damaged. And because it had artificial intelligence built in, it was able to figure out on how to repair itself, to be able to get itself out of the ditch. And like this was the first time ever that not only were you able to say send something to Mars, but you knew that the reliability that it was able to care for itself. Now I know that they're like building something that's even better than what they had before, but That just goes to show you just the small benefit in a very large scale all the way all the way in Mars.

::

Bert

Mhm. Mhm.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

s kind of like we're like the:

::

Bert

. What was it:

::

Bert

They would have no, they never in their wildest dreams would have would they have come up with it. And and my my ah grandfather, yeah, it's crazy.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

t planes. Look at planes from:

::

Bert

yeah Yeah, it's crazy, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

What?

::

Bert

It's crazy.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mind-blowing.

::

Bert

was born in, I i want to say:

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Crazy.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, wow.

::

Bert

So ah of course, you know, a little bit ago, but he couldn't.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

A little bit ago. here

::

Bert

So he was alive when they walked on the moon and there's no way. And he was just absolutely gobsmacked because there's no way in his life when he was a kid that he would have imagined.

::

Bert

I mean, firstly, airliners, because there were no airliners when he was born. Right.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

No.

::

Bert

And forget airliners, just people going to the moon. right? And then or forget that just forget now that we have, um you know, we have satellites that are that are at the end of the, you know, beyond the solar system into deep space.

::

Bert

um I mean, it's just, it's mind numbing how far we've come in in in given some really, really primitive technology. So imagine what what what AI would do that. Imagine if you turned AI loose on the Wright Brothers, you know, airplane, and said, Okay, we'll fix this.

::

Bert

Can you imagine what what that would look like? So

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

i'll throw I'll throw you a bone even further. Imagine giving AI to Leonardo da Vinci.

::

Bert

yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Okay, first off, he'd think you're do bringing him some witchcraft from another civilization.

::

Bert

yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

He'd probably go, but I mean, if you think about it, if you gave Leonardo da Vinci AI, The AI would be basically be able to help tell them and say, hey, listen, I don't think it's a good idea to have the bird wings flapping because i know that I know that birds do that, but it's not really the way that it works with a plane. you know If you figure out to like make rudders and you have it positioned and it's like, oh, OK, he may have invented the plane 500 years ago.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

years to:

::

Bert

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that one of the dangers is that as humans, we are not wired. We are not hardwired to adapt at that pace.

::

Bert

We're just not.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

No.

::

Bert

It's one of the reasons why it's one of the reasons why socially, um you know, kids are my kids, I shouldn't say kids. i should say I should say that we as humans are so are are not understanding the the full scope and extent and um ah pitfalls of social media, for example, because we're not we're not evolved to to communicate in that way, shape or form.

::

Bert

so and and I mean, that's a very, very crude example, but but look at, I mean, it wasn't that long ago that if you if you told someone that you would travel faster than than than a horse, than a horse could run, that they just think, well, you would die because you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to survive, you know, the the speed and the acceleration and deceleration.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

What was that insane thing about women in trains? They couldn't be in there because otherwise their stomachs would explode.

::

Bert

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's just, so, so, so, so that speaks to how, how dumb we are, when it comes to, you know, new technologies, right, and, and, and and the barriers that that are that are up against them, to adopt them.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

There's some wild stuff back then.

::

Bert

And, of course, you know, in ah in an evolutionary context, if you weren't If we weren't hardwired not to accept you know the you know crazy things you know right out of the box, we'd be dead as a species, right?

::

Bert

It's one of the reasons that we've that we've managed to survive is that because we tend to be sort of skeptical about new things. I'm skeptical in a curious sense and and ask questions.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

But the the changes are coming out of so fast and they're and they're generally so so wildly beneficial that that that we're playing catch up. And that' thats that's problematic, um which is why everyone is saying, oh, you know, AI, know people are going to, it's going to turn into Terminator and pretty soon, you know, they're going to be our bosses.

::

Bert

And and ah that's just human nature sort of pushing back at the pace.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Well, that that's one way. But the thing is, is that like, OK, I'm one of I'm a Star Trek fan. I love Star Trek.

::

Bert

Okay.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

And I think Star Trek kind of summed up artificial intelligence. and I basically like. It has life. I forgot the term it's called.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

um

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

ah There's a there's a term for it. But anyway, it's we're basically like AI reaches like sentient. Sorry, that's the word sentient life.

::

Bert

is it yeah Yeah, I was going to say that, but yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Um, but when it reaches sensing like sentience it it has this way of almost trying to understand both sides where you're coming from.

::

Bert

Mm hmm.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

So it's not figuring out if you're right or wrong. It's trying to figure out why are you right? And why are you wrong? And if you're wrong, why? Why is that wrong? And if you're right, why is that right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Does that kind of make sense? It has its own ability and form.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I think if you if it doesn't have all that human character characteristics attached to it, you can't have a terminator.

::

Bert

Well.

::

Bert

Well, I think, well, for for there's there's two things, I think, that you raised at least two. And and right off the bat, you I mean, you have to define sentience. um And we would have ah you know we as humans, again, would have a very limited perspective of what that is, because we're we're humans.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, for sure.

::

Bert

Like, if you if I asked that question to a creature who you who you might have referred to earlier, who was who is wholly metallic completely, they might have a different idea of what of what sentience is. So let's okay let's let's just let's ah let's just agree for the sake of you know for not going down a rabbit hole.

::

Bert

But the question you asked really is moral, like how do you how do you give AI some some a moral compass? Because we we as humans have a moral compass. And and that that moral compass transcends culture, it transcends almost transcends species. Well, I shouldn't say that. It certainly transcends culture. ah It transcends different societies, transcends civilization. So we have this idea of of you know what how we should be morally oriented.

::

Bert

And the fear is generally that AI that will will not share that same moral compass. so And and the you know the the lame, I shouldn't say lame, but I guess that the overgeneralized terminator example is that they will they will have no moral compass and they'll wipe out humanity because their moral compass is wildly different than ours, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

No.

::

Bert

so The fear is how do you how do we give them a moral compass that's unbiased, right? And how do you give give them a moral compass that's still aligned with with what we would generally, you know um which which is what we would generally want?

::

Bert

So it's a really tough question. And I mean, it's so unbelievably wide open. it's ah And I mean, because we because we really don't know

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

here

::

Bert

what we really don't know what we've created. We really don't know what we've done with AI, right? It's like, what actually have I done? It's like, ah it's the it's Shelley's version of Frankenstein. What have I actually created?

::

Bert

Shelley had no, in the novel, he had no idea what he created with Frankenstein. What have I done?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mhm.

::

Bert

What have I turned loose on? I've i've created life, you know, but but now what have I done, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mhm.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

You've made a monster.

::

Bert

You've made a monster. So um so that's that that's where we are, you know, poking around with Frankenstein.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

know People forget like from:

::

Bert

yeah Yeah, yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

With the red eye. That was creepy, okay? I mean like real ass creepy.

::

Bert

Oh, yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

That would traumatize a generation to like, you know that's like the predecessor of Terminator.

::

Bert

Mm-hmm.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

but I think, like again, our understanding of intelligence is very minimal because I think eventually, eight I would assume, when we do interact with other species, whatever, if they're coming from the multiverse or coming from other places,

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

we may start to now understand that there are different forms of communication. There are different laws of physics, not different type, different, like the laws of physics that still apply that may interact differently, like you said, in a multiverse, or may um evolve differently on another planet.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I mean, I remember I was reading an article, I i don't know if it was from NASA, they found a planet that has life. not life, like, you know, like, like it kind of shows sign of like water and, um you know, it shows like rock formations and vegetation. But this planet evolved with two moons. So it has one small moon, and it has one large moon. And one of the theories was is like the way that this planet formed was it was one big planet, then it got broken up.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

And it had two other pieces that basically expanded out and became its moon. So its two moons was once a part of its own planet. So it's kind of again, kind of we're talking about like the manipulation of how our planet formed.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Other planets that have organic life or show signs of organic life have these other forms of manipulation that they apply.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I don't know if I said that correctly.

::

Bert

yeah yeah yeah i think you know i mean to and we just If we just take a step back to what you said earlier about different kinds of physics, i mean we know that our own universe is full of dark matter.

::

Bert

We have no idea what that is.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

::

Bert

We can't see it. We can't sense it. Well, we can sense it only only through its its gravitational um interaction with other bodies. But it's out there and we don't have and it's it's part of dark energy. It's it's ah all this but all these things that we don't know. But but it's a huge part of our it's a huge part of our universe. so And if it weren't a part of if if it weren't a part of our universe, even though it might be, you know,

::

Bert

so far away from us that it's that that it seems to be irrelevant. It's still part and parcel of us of us of those interactions on on a cosmic scale that have brought us to to this point. So again, to what you had said, there's a planet that's split apart for whatever reason. It's now two moons, and and it's that's part of its evolution. And and it's ah anything on that planet or on those bodies, they are because they're linked in that way. They have this very common thread that binds them all. So we have no idea. We should have a very limited idea of the of the ah the thread that binds us, like binds us to our to our moon, to the sun, to the solar system, to the rest of everything, and then to whatever

::

Bert

whatever else is potentially sentient in the universe. So it's, ah you know, it's, it's a fascinating thing to think about. And it's really interesting to think about in terms of like, we're talking about science, we could talk about that and say cultural in a cultural perspective, which you brought up earlier about, look, you know, as Babylonians, they have, there's, there's these depictions of things that we can't describe.

::

Bert

And those things, those those things, man, you can see those things, you know, in in Egypt, you can see them, and you can see them

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Clear as day, clear as day, like there's pictures on Google right now, you can go like go online right now and you can find them.

::

Bert

Yeah, I mean, look look in in South America, on the Nazca Plains, where the only way that you can actually see those structures is from is from above.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

And there's no mountains to look at that you got to be in something that's actually well above the ground. So this there's all kinds of amazing, amazing ah mysteries, let's say, that

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm-hmm.

::

Bert

that so and and And they're cultural. They're not they're not scientific in in that regard. they're they're They're cultural. So, you know, why do they exist? And, I mean, that's a whole nother, that's a whole nother, um I mean, there's lots of talk about there as well. But I mean, the the scientific, the the science the way to look at it scientifically to me is is is interesting because you can look at, you know, how we can, how well we're able to to describe something.

::

Bert

like, let's say tides, because we're talking about the moon, have a very good idea how the tides work, and then take that same level of of of introspection and then apply that to to to some of the you know to some some bigger mysteries that may be metaphysical or that may be so you know metaphysic metaphysical in the sense that there're they're they're not well described by you know by the science that we that we're typically um that we're typically used to. so um We live in really interesting times, I think, because these questions, like you said, look at Leonardo. So look at, I mean, as as unbelievable a mind as he must have had. Imagine the tools that he had at at his disposal, you know, to probe, right? To under you know to probe the world. but Imagine what we have now. So sitting there with your phone, you can bump up some AI that has that has the ability to

::

Bert

to to answer questions that that that you might ask that that nobody could answer even a year ago. Just you on your phone alone. Sit in there. I got nothing to do for the next 20 minutes. I think I'll ask some interesting questions, right? So um our ability to to to probe has grows like you would described really is growing exponentially, like think of an airplane, you know, 100 years ago, 80 years ago, 20, whatever, right?

::

Bert

And um I mean, ask yourself, I don't think anybody knows what an airplane is gonna look like in 80 years from now. I mean, other than it's gonna have some something that can fly through the atmosphere, but what that looks like, who knows, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

We don't know.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

We don't know.

::

Bert

And that's, that's crazy to think about, right? Because, you know, we take airplanes or cars or or that stuff, like for granted. I mean, what's food gonna look like 80 years from now?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Well, I can tell you that even from the car industry, you know, people like to shit on electronics because, you know, to be very honest, most cars today is are kind of like your refrigerator. It's an appliance. There's mostly wires and components that are attaching meaning everything to work. But the reality is, is that we've gotten so advanced now where we can basically make cars have less wiring, make them safer.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

and more proactive. So your car is able to do things that you physically as a human being cannot do as responsive.

::

Bert

Uh

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I mean, it's doing things in a matter of a fraction of a second.

::

Bert

-huh.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

at speeds and, you know, you're talking about a ah computer that is able to manipulate its own code, going back and forth for its programming, again, in a fraction of a second. All of these things is all thanks to advancement and development, where we're able to do make things now that are better than us, that are better, not only better than us, more capable than us.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

don't need as much sleep than us, you know, require a lot less to do a lot more.

::

Bert

Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that's I mean, that that if you if you were to say that to someone, I think the first reaction might be to I mean, it's easy to see how the first reaction might be something like, oh, my God, that's terrible.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right, obviously.

::

Bert

But let's let's let's let's take a step back and think and think we talked. I just said about food. Like we are able to produce more food now than we were ever before.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

::

Bert

And it's wonder when we eat better now than than anyone in history has ever eaten. Certainly, and I mean, not not ah not globally across the world. So let's let's just say that to begin with. So let's just so let's just let's just clump this to to us, but but the the that the technology exists.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

so so i mean and and and look and And look at medicine. Look at the advances um in medicine. and look look at the advances in in transportation, like so which is what you're talking about.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So there's there's nothing wrong with with, look at the advantage, I mean, think of the surgical table. Think of all the surgery in that now that's that's done, you know, robotically with with remote sensing.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So think that there's nothing wrong with with getting a machine to do something better than us. as long as that's as long as that's properly oriented like it's easy for you could say as you know to to look at the other side of the coin it's easy to make a machine that's a lot better at killing another human than I would be right that's that's not a that's not an issue you can do that but it's it's not that isn't that that isn't properly directed um advancement right that's just wrong

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

a Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

It's, you know, to your point, if you take, for example, nuclear, right? Nuclear can be used to make really terrible bombs that can w ra wreak havoc and destroy this entire planet. But it has other benefits. It can be used to help advance our energy problem and crisis that we have in the United States and in Canada and across and the entire world. Again, it's like,

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

How are you going to utilize it? You know, are you going to utilize it as a weapon? Or are you going to utilize it as the ultimate tool? Because that's what computing has become. It's become the ultimate tool.

::

Bert

yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

That's what, you know, you know it has a negative conga into it. But like, that's kind of what bioengineering is, particularly with food. there These are what those benefits are. It allows us as a civilization to flourish and become better and better.

::

Bert

And i yeah I think that i mean and not not only not only ah our civilization, but civilization you know globally.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So you can you can go to countries who are struggling with with energy, like the low cost energy is the

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

is the underpinning of of all of all things, you know, good, basically.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So um so the the the thing that the thing that that, and we talked about this very briefly earlier, the thing that we have not yet done is is give moral compass to the things that that that we create, other than coming up with a set of rules.

::

Bert

Like, for example, the car you know you using the the autonomous braking system in new cars where if the if the car itself senses, however you define, however it's doing that, that that ah that that that a crash is is is imminent, then it does something.

::

Bert

So um so that's a very simple moral compass, you know crash good, it no crash or crash bad, you know no no crash good.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

And no, no, that's OK.

::

Bert

So sorry about that. so it's it And then and then if we if we turn that, if we if we say, okay, you know AI come up with your own moral compass,

::

Bert

then that's the issue, right? Because we're, yeah ah oh, I think i would I would push back on that.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I don't think it needs a moral compass to be sufficient.

::

Bert

I would say it has to have a moral compass. It has to. it has to

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

We'll define what you mean by a moral compass for AI. I just just ah ah want um want to hear your your perspective on this.

::

Bert

Well, in in in the lack, okay, let me say that if in the lack of any kind of moral compass, then then anything is good. all things are All things are equally good, which which you know of that which you know but know you know what the in your heart of hearts that that that's completely untrue.

::

Bert

That just that just leads to to chaos.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

there has to be There has to be some sort of stacking. There has to be some sort of hierarchy. that that you assign to those things that you perceive. otherwise Otherwise, if in the lack of a moral compass that's certainly shared across, for example, across humans, then every then it's it's every man for himself.

::

Bert

And all that matters is is is how much power I can have.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So if you look in the natural world, if you put 100 chimpanzees into a room, all they would do is kill each other.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, 100% because chimp.

::

Bert

if you put a hundred thousand if you put a hundred thousand people into a football stadium, they're all happy and glad, right? Except for those.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So it's a very, I mean, this idea of a shared moral compass, even if you look at a game, like if you look at a football game when there's a hundred, I mean, it's a massive number of people to put into a small space.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I know the stadiums are are humongous,

::

Bert

And, and you know, except for the odd exception, there's there's, you know, fights aren't breaking out and people aren't being murdered or thrown off the top and people are drinking and still having a good time.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

there are they There there are fights there are there are fights at football games.

::

Bert

Oh yeah, sure, it happens.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah Right obviously, yeah

::

Bert

Oh, of course, I mean, there's there of course it happens, but it's it's the exception, right? It's not the rule. but so so if you um and So that speaks to the necessity of a moral compass, I think, in the most general terms.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

But then, you know, there's the idea of then what defines the moral compass for the AI, because, you know, let's be honest, I mean, there has been a layer of manipulation of bias and political endeavors and direction that has been inputted with these things.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

So who then defies what moral compass is the AI have? Or does the artificial intelligence have to create its own form of of morality?

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Bert

Well, I think you've you've that's a $64,000 question, right? you you you You can't have, you know, I mean, you but clearly, and we and we talked about this earlier a little bit as well, is that there's you know different cultures, different societies, different different times, different everything has come up with with different ideas of of what's right and wrong. so So what actually is right and wrong? And there's, I mean, there's there's a thread that that binds all that, but the thread is is is rather tenuous. And if you look at, okay, if you just look at, if you look at the United States as an example, the United States is the most successful, most,

::

Bert

um It's the most successful, freest country in the world, bar none, and it's it's managed to achieve It's a managed to to to achieve that that the status is the greatest country the world has ever seen in an an incredibly short period of time.

::

Bert

he the roman Romans, for example, were around for about 2,000 years. Greeks, maybe 1,500 years. Egyptians might have been 2,500 years, 3,000.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

3000, yeah.

::

Bert

But they never they they never the that they never ascended to the heights that the United States has in such an incredibly short period of time.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

In in a many ways, it's kind of a new form of the Roman Empire.

::

Bert

Sure. So there's so which is which is something to say that the maybe the moral compass that's that's that's underpinning the way that the United States has evolved, maybe there's something to be said about that as opposed to say the Aztec Empire or as the or or or maybe the Egyptians or or or maybe the Comanches.

::

Bert

The largest empire that that that's ever existed in the Americas was were the Comanches. so So you can't say, well, well let's let's let's take those guys as our moral exemplars. That that might not be the best thing to do.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, I don't think the Comanches, yeah if you live like the Comanches, you'll understand why very quickly.

::

Bert

Yeah, yeah so so so there's so I guess you know one way of one way of picking what what that moral compass might be is to look at the moral compasses that that have existed.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

hey

::

Bert

Look at the choices we have as moral compasses because you can't say, well, I'm just going to pick a new one because that's that's experimenting on a global scale and that's

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

there When you already have others that have already been experimented on, right and you know they they' going back to the idea of like telling the AI to find all of the most dangerous, the most lethal, it's kind of the same way where you already have somewhat of a map with a plethora of options of morality that have existed

::

Bert

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Sure.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Thousands of years, and we have tablets, we have things been carved out in walls. It's not like we don't have information. We do, to a certain degree.

::

Bert

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah, so so then so there there's there's So there has to be, i'm i'm it's way above my pay grade to say what the moral compass should be, that's for sure.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

it's Right, obviously.

::

Bert

But i'm i can I can certainly understand that there's that there's a need for one. And clearly, I'm you know i'm Canadian, I live in the, you know, I'm pretty proud Canadian. ah I live here in in in in ah in a society that's basically been framed and, and um um Well, I shouldn't say framed, but i I should say it has been the we are the direct benefits of of the United States is a hegemony sense of all I guess pretty much they came into being because you know Canada the United States are very very closely aligned and in in many different ways um So we are the benefits I mean the direct benefits of of the moral compass that's that that's been guiding the the United States and if you

::

Bert

But that isn't, if if I lived in in China, I might be saying something different, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, for sure.

::

Bert

ah if i If I lived in, or Mexico's, yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Or in Mexico, for example, which is the which is literally the other side, you know, the Germans.

::

Bert

Yeah, so there's, so the the problem with AI is, one of the problems is that it's all pervasive. Like it's, you know, you can, and and you can, i but It used to be really hard to spread your ideas.

::

Bert

like Think how hard the British Empire had to had to work to spread to to spread its ideas. Or forget that. for If you didn't like the you don't like the Brits, try the French. If you don't like the French, then how about the Dutch? If you don't like those guys, or the Germans, or the Portuguese, or the Spanish, or the Phoenicians, or the Egyptians, or the Romans, the list goes on and on of civilizations that have sort of expanded.

::

Bert

Or the Comanches, and we just talked about those guys. but

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

::

Bert

um ah that it was ah It was unbelievably difficult to to promulgate your ideas right and your cultural norms. But that's that's all gone by the wayside. it's one of that we We mentioned earlier about one of the ways that social media can is changing the world is that societal norms that are accepted in one country are being you know can very easily bleed or be pushed into other cultures. right And at the boundary of anything, there's always this turbulence and friction. So if AI... you know Imagine how well three what what did i say netflix took three years three and a half years to get to a million users chat gbt got five days so think of think of how quickly that technology just blows into the world all of it all all corners yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

And it progresses. Yeah.

::

Bert

so if So that's why this idea of a moral compass is really important, because firstly, it has to have one. Otherwise, it's just chaos, and anything goes. And then but and what should that look like? Because um whatever that might be, it has the potential to just blow through the world in the same way that chat GBT blew through the world.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah, and I mean, it's, it's, it's again, it's something that we're gonna want to leave off with. You know, when you go to even the very start of personal computers, you know, I mean, I'm 25. And strangely enough, I do remember when we had landlines. All right. And, you know, it was it was not fun. You used to have to turn off the phone in order to get on the Internet. It was super slow. And there's AOL or there's Netscape. like

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

You know, even as I got older, you know, and you just for me to be able to see like, oh my God, there's a thing that I could just touch with my finger and it's a phone. That's cool. You know, and even to that progression, we're now we're able to even do something like this.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

You know, I know like you got people like even Joe Rogan, they're like, oh, virtual podcast that there is something that you can create from this, which is here, I'm sitting here in Florida, you're sitting there in Canada, we are able to have a conversation like as if we're in the exact same room.

::

Bert

yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

And I think that's also kind of part of the moral compass and the kind of the whole part of the story is just like it took ah personal a personal computer to be $10,000 and all these variables and all these prompts where we are now.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

We can kind of give that same morality and the same idea with artificial intelligence. And we're progressing in the future.

::

Bert

yeah Yeah, I think that's, that's a, that's a really, really, uh, that's a really beautiful insight because one of the ways that we can have this conversation is that, okay, I'm going to talk to this guy.

::

Bert

He's in a different country. He's older than me, a different generation, but we're going to find out if there's some common ground and if there's something that we can actually talk about that's interesting.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

So, so what, what that is saying is that, okay, let's find some common ground based on some, on some obvious, obvious ground rules like show up Bert. If if you're supposed to be there at 10 Bert, you should be there at 10 and not, not 12, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

hey

::

Bert

that's

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right.

::

Bert

Like that's part of the moral compass. You expect me to be there at at at you know when when this you know when this was scheduled. So so we're we're playing by this set of rules that we both understand, but we didn't actually have to.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Right.

::

Bert

we didn't actually have to

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

To abide to them, yeah.

::

Bert

um right Yeah, so so that's part of the moral compass, right? that's And that's a good way to look at it. And one of the things, and again, that's one of the things that's unique to the United States, this idea that there's a First Amendment, you can you can have different ideas, but you can still you're still allowed to to speak.

::

Bert

and And there's rules on that, of course, but the point is that

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

For sure.

::

Bert

That's one of the underpinnings of of the moral of this moral compass idea, this idea you know if ai if it's going to say if it's going to control, say, you know Twitter or Facebook or any other social media platform, it would have to allow diverse voices right right off the bat with differing opinions.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

100% 100% yeah, for sure.

::

Bert

And so that and that makes sense to us right because well because you're you're an American I grew up in Canada where like I said where part we've been benefit from the hegemony of the United States and the idea that the United States was the first to come up with this idea of you know free speech and and and we benefit so that has to be in my mind part of the moral compass and you can see what happens when that gets When when when you pull that piece out of the pie, right when you say no, no know, you can only talk about things that you know, that are important to me.

::

Bert

And you can only talk about things that we can you can only agree with me, which is part of this idea of, you know, anything goes, I'm the most important thing. There is no there's no there's nothing greater than me. So yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, it's just there's nothing. The thing is, is that everybody's going to voice their opinions and what they want to say. Right. You know, I'm very much in the philosophy of instead of shutting the person up, let them talk. I don't give a damn if it's racist as hell. It doesn't matter. Let the damn person talk. And if there's a problem, right, again, morality coming in, talk to the person.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Explain to them why you feel why you morally or personally feel that this is wrong and why other people kind of feel the same way, too You know it get like I I know this sounds so stupid there's so many different things that can be solved by a simple conversation and That in itself is morality.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I know that's bizarre

::

Bert

in at in you know in the late:

::

Bert

And he said, oh, well, you know, physics is over.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm-hmm.

::

Bert

There's nothing left to discover. So think about how brilliant that guy was. And he was brilliant in any way, in any way that everybody can imagine.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Wow.

::

Bert

And how wildly wrong he was.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

You... You're dead wrong.

::

Bert

Wildly. Dead wrong. And he'd be laughed. He couldn't say that. If he showed up on your doorstep and told you that, you'd laugh him. You'd laugh him all the way down the block, even though it's Lord Rutherford.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I mean, look at all the proof that we have. Yeah.

::

Bert

so So, and if he were never allowed to speak and you were never allowed to hear him, we as a culture, as a society would never know how wildly wrong that person was, just like people believing the earth is flat, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I do. I don't understand it. I'm like, come to Florida.

::

Bert

But let them speak, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

No, it's like, look you know what?

::

Bert

Let them speak.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

The proof is just come to Florida because of how flat how flat Florida is. You can stand, look up and you could literally see the sky is like a dome because you like, you know, the you you still believe the earth is flat, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

s an Egyptian, I think around:

::

Bert

um but And Christopher Columbus, and everyone said that the the earth the earth is round there, buddy, but he didn't believe it. But but but but to your point, um all you need to do is look around, you know, to find some of the some of the bigger truths.

::

Bert

But yeah,

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

and the curvatures, definitely the curvatures.

::

Bert

yeah yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

a Oh, for sure.

::

Bert

But he was allowed, you know, Christopher was allowed to express himself, right? So I don't know, the earth is flat. i and And so he had that conversation. I mean, the conversation was very big in the sense that it was this giant expedition, you know, cost cost Spain a fortune at the time.

::

Bert

But the point is, He was allowed, he was allowed the freedom of expression, right, to to do your thing and then come back and and make your claim. So um that has to be part and parcel of the moral compass, just just just like you described.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, for sure.

::

Bert

Yeah, yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah. Question for you, because I know that you um and you have a social media page.

::

Bert

Hmm.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Do you have a website, if I'm not mistaken?

::

Bert

Sure. there's i mean i have the I have websites that are associated with with my business and I have websites that are associated with sort of the expeditions. um If you just go to burtterhart dot.com, I guess you can sort of that that would launch you into you know what I'm doing for for a business or what I'm doing on the expedition side of the fence.

::

Bert

so yeah that there There's lots.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

have you have you

::

Bert

i mean sadly Sadly, if you were to Google my name, there's lots there. i you know

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Okay. Have you been on any recent expeditions or this was like, you know, the prior past few years?

::

Bert

No, i was i i'm I was gone this summer. I was sailing out to the Aleutian Islands again this summer.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Okay.

::

Bert

And then and then coming in in May, I'm getting in a canoe again and paddling from you know basically the the eastern slopes of the Rocky Mountains out to the Arctic Ocean and then down and then down the coast.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Jesus that's that's a short trip.

::

Bert

um and and

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Let me tell you Wow in a canoe Solo or you doing that with other oh Wow

::

Bert

Yeah, yeah, it's like:

::

Bert

I'm pretty sure I have to take some, ah I have to take at least a GPS, certainly when I'm in the Arctic. So, because it's too dangerous otherwise. But having said that, I mean, that the whole idea is to look at, again, to look at you know what's happening ah on on a very large scale in terms of climate change in some of the some of the areas of Canada that are most are most affected.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Mm hmm.

::

Bert

So that's obviously the Arctic. It's having a look at some of the you know some of the water quality issues that are in some of Canada's major watersheds. It's to shed some light as well on the role that Indigenous Peoples played in putting Canada on the map, it certainly as we know it, because we know the names of like obviously the Mackenzie River, that guy was a Brit, you know came to Canada, returned to Canada, but um he wasn't able to do what he was able to do had it not been for Indigenous Peoples living in those areas. and um and there And again, to to help, to to get to get people to step outside and and realize there's ah an amazing world right right on right on our doorstep.

::

Bert

All you have to do is go outside and and choose to choose to engage in some way, shape, or form. Whether that engagement is doing what I'm doing or just opening your eyes, like like like like you had alluded to earlier, just saying,

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Thanks.

::

Bert

Wow, this is an amazing place. I wonder for a loan. Just look up at night. everyone I don't know anyone who's ever won who's not wondered. I wonder what's out there. so um One of the things I like to do is and is to encourage people to have that same childlike wonder when they when they step out into the world. and

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah. it really It really brings um a shed of light or almost a personal connection because you know doing something like that, you know yeah the only the only survival is what's around you you know you.

::

Bert

so

::

Bert

Uh-huh.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

You have to be able to adapt and use whatever skills you can, which means you got to rely on what gives us life every single day regardless.

::

Bert

yeah yeah you have to Yeah, you have to have a very good understanding of of the moment, of the now, so um which is a really good lesson in life actually, because um if you can't actually be fully embedded in now, then then you're Then you're probably oriented in the wrong direction either you're oriented into what was, which is you can't do anything anything about that, or what might be, which is above your pay grade because tomorrow, who knows what's going to be like um i mean we we we don't know like what's an airplane going to look like what are we going to eat all these questions we don't know and.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

No.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah. We don't know.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

We'll find out.

::

Bert

and

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

We'll find out tomorrow.

::

Bert

Yeah. So, so the best thing to do is to be embedded in now.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

And when you're in those, when you're, you know, if you're, you know, in the wilds or, or, you know, in the bush or it's the middle of winter or living in Fargo, um, then you better be concerned about what's happening right now, because right now it can be really, really harsh, right?

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, yeah. yeah you Yeah, you can't just stay on the couch on a Saturday night and eat your, you know, Ben and Jerry's and just worry about the blizzard of blow over.

::

Bert

It can be cold and miserable. And yeah. No.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

It's not how it works.

::

Bert

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

Yeah. Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

um So you have your website and do you have any social media at all or?

::

Bert

yeah

::

Bert

Sure. Sure. You can ah you can. Well, there's social media associated with with all the expeditions. So that's that Facebook.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Okay.

::

Bert

You can go to Facebook dot com slash the five capes and that that'll be the circumnavigation or Facebook dot com slash um across alone. That's about the can delay the the canoe exhibition across the country.

::

Bert

If you go to um facebook dot.com slash lead brain AI, that's the the the latest you software company that I've launched. and and Or if you just were to if you just were to Google my name itself, Burt Terhart, you'll be, sadly, you'll be inundated with all kinds of things.

::

Bert

So you can find, you can, yeah, yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Well, yeah you have a memorable name, so I don't i don't think it's gonna be hard.

::

Bert

yeah Yeah, so there's there's lots of ways, you know, for people to if you if you wish to find if you wish to connect with me, it's always I'm always very fascinated by by by the conversations I have with with people that are that might be that are either drawn to to me for business reasons or drawn to me for the expedition reasons, because it always sheds, for me, um selfishly, I get a completely new perspective on what I've done.

::

Bert

And it's always a perspective that I would not have possibly dreamt up myself. So the conversations are always incredibly rewarding.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah.

::

Bert

And and the rule is, if you email me, I'll email you back. so So I mean one of these so I I still have I still have kids from who follow these other trips ah who email me just about every week so and I answer them because that's that's the rule and of course it's I mean to me it's it's it's really fun but but it it is ah yeah I'm still in the phone book you can still look me up in the white pages because I have a landline because the power goes out here all the time when I live on a small island so the power goes out here all the time yeah

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

That's a good rule.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, yeah, it's awesome.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh my god. i hit he um my Have you like, have you you um gotten like a star link or anything where you where you are or

::

Bert

i'm ah well we do i mean starlingk ah it's I would have got one when they first came out, but then they you know they were limiting it to places in Canada where they really needed it because we had internet connection already, but that's that's since changed. but startlink is I can tell you that Starlink is reshaping everything that that that we know. so For example, I mentioned sailing off to to the Aleutians this summer,

::

Bert

ah And you don't you don't come across very many boats in those places that are that are pleasure boats. It's all typically commercial boats. But every commercial boat I came across and every other pleasure boat had Starlink on it.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Really?

::

Bert

Every other one, yeah. And it works at sea in the wildest places.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Wow.

::

Bert

And that's that's completely transforming how how people are traveling to those places and what they're doing when they get there. And you know there's both good, like everything, there's there's good and bad.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh yeah, for sure.

::

Bert

but But I guess ah that's a long way around about way of me saying that I will have to have Starlink at some time because it's independent of the grid. And we're dependent on the grid here and the grid goes out.

::

Bert

Every time the wind blows hard, then the the power lines all, well, the stuff falls, just like behind us, stuff falls on the power lines and it goes out.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh.

::

Bert

And then, so the last time the power was out was um about 10 days ago and it was out for a week, out for seven days.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Jesus.

::

Bert

So that's, so that's nothing here. That's, there's no way to cook. There's no way to get water. There's no way to heat the house except for wood. So I can't get on the internet, all these things. And that's, you know, that's, so, you know, we're like, yeah,

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Crazy. But you know what you you get you get to be you get to be exactly you get to be like a part of real nature You know like your neighbors a wee bit far away and Yeah, oh Yeah yet

::

Bert

yeah yeah.

::

Bert

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get a, you have to live in, you get a healthy dose of reality as soon as the power goes out.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

That's a good way of looking at it.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

oh Listen, listen, Bert, it's been an an absolute pleasure.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I and think you're so for the furthest person we've had on the podcast.

::

Bert

Wow.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

I'm not mistaken. So congrats.

::

Bert

Oh, that's pretty cool.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Yeah. um

::

Bert

Yeah. We'll have to, we'll have to do it when I'm in a canoe somewhere. We'll have to rig that up.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

Oh, my God.

::

Bert

That would, that would be, that would be hilarious.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

i I would love that. i would it Listen, if you got the Starlink, we gotta do, I mean, we're not paid by by Tesla or anything, but definitely have to do like a little intro of that as well.

::

Bert

Yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

But um listen, it's been an absolute pleasure.

::

Bert

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

::

Lost in the Groove Podcast

If anyone wants to check out more of the podcast, you can find us on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube at Lost in the Groove Pod. So with that, catch you on the next one. Peace out.

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About the Podcast

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Lost in the Groove
Hosted by stoners and artists

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About your host

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Dave lennon

Lost in the Groove is my space to explore the real, raw, and unexpected. I started this podcast because I was tired of feeling like nothing ever changes. My therapist once suggested, I write letters to the government to express my frustrations. Then I thought, "Why not create a podcast instead?" Here, I can talk about what I want, with whoever I want, no matter their beliefs. For me, it's about having honest conversations,. Breaking down walls, and getting people to think beyond the surface.

I grew up in a blue-collar family in the suburbs outside New York City, raised as an Orthodox Jew. Leaving the religious community in 2017 was a pivotal moment for me. It allowed me to embrace my identity as an artist, and chart my own path. Who I am today, and what this podcast represents, is deeply tied to my journey. Leaving a community that was a cult; still is. Discovering authenticity, creativity, and independence in myself.

I’m a car enthusiast, an artist, and someone who thrives on creative expression. From old-school rap, and psychedelic rock. To vintage muscle cars and European classics. I’m all about the things that inspire passion.
My co-host, Karissa Andrews, joins me for American Groove. Our segment on stoner culture, and life’s weirder twists. She’s an incredibly talented makeup artist, aesthetician, and candle maker. She brings a spice, pizazz, and realness to every conversation.

This podcast isn’t about chasing fame or conforming to trends, it’s about the experience. I want listener, whether they’re driving home, cooking, or just unwinding. To feel like they’re part of something real. Lost in the Groove is my way of staying true to myself, while connecting with others. learning, and having fun along the way.